Dear Bro Jo,
For me and all the other girls out there wondering the same thing.......I know this may sound silly but it feels like the only kind of guy that is ever attracted to me is the CREEPY STALKER kind of guy.
Why is that?!
I dress modestly, I act appropriately, I do everything that I can to make sure I'm living the way I should.
Is it because I'm just so outgoing and nice to everyone that they think I'm flirting with them?
Are all the nice guys just to intimidated to talk to me? And that's why I get all the Creeps?
Are there just no nice guys in the area or is there something else wrong?
Also how do I kindly let a guy know that I am NOT INTERESTED!!
I hate being rude and feel like no matter who the guy is I should still be nice to him and show him respect. but how do I do that and get the point across to them?!
Or is there even a way to be nice and let them know?
Like seriously.....it seems like guys don't get it when you tell them you just want to be friends.
Are Guys really THAT DUMB?!
WHAT DO I DO?!!
[by the way.....I love your blog! thank you so much! :) ]
~T.W.~
Dear TW,
Is the problem that you attract Creepers or that you're not attracting the guys you want to attract?
Those are too different things.
Because let's be honest: the world is full of great Nice Guys . . . so yeah, something else may be wrong.
I mean, you could be SO nice that the socially awkward guys cling to you because you don't cold-heartedly reject them the way many other girls do . . .
But then we also have to face the fact that if a Great Looking guy did the same things that Creeper Boy is doing (depending of course on what it is), you'd probably be all giggles and wiggles, right?
So . . . um, you know what that means . . .
And, in answer to your other question: yes, guys are that dumb.
Even more so, actually.
Clear and concise is the best shot you have at getting your message across, and if you water it down any it won't work. It's not rude; it's honest. And in the long run, nicer that stringing him along (in his eyes) and then freaking out or, as he may see it, suddenly rejecting him for no reason.
See, "Guys Can't Stay 'Just Close Friends' with Girls".
They can't.
And they don't want to.
For us "good friends" just means that we're close enough that eventually we may wear you down far enough that you'll make out with us. (This, by the way, is the reason Sister Jo is the Only Close Female Friend I have.)
All it takes, in our minds, is a bad breakup, a fight with your parents or best friend, or (for the less scrupulous) . . . a little alcohol. (Another reason not to drink the stuff, sisters.)
Maybe if we come over, hang out, study in your room, and you're sad or desperate or lonely enough . . . well, one can hope!
That's how dudes think.
Any guy who argues is a liar (and likely trying to use his argument to get closer to you), or at least terrified of the truth . . . or that I might be bowing his chances with you (which of course you and I both know he never had . . . except for the fact that this ploy actually works on some of you! Hey, like telemarketers, we wouldn't try this strategy if it didn't work once in a while.)
Dad's know.
We're guys.
That's why Good Dads never let guys in your room (in my house, friends aren't even allowed on the same floor as the bedrooms) and they actively disapprove of certain outfits and situations.
So, for all of you Too Nice Girls who can't shed the Creepy Stalker Boys, once again, here's what you say:
"I'm not interested."
Don't add ANYTHING.
Don't say "thank you", or "you're really sweet", or "at this time", or "but we can still be friends", or "that's flattering".
If he's already decided to creep on you, all of that stuff is just encouraging.
Be Nice.
Be Polite.
Be Honest.
Be Clear.
And Be Smart.
Lastly, consider this: the world is full of women who are happily married to guys they would have found weird and creepy in high school.
True story.
- Bro Jo
And by the way, thank you.
I attracted a lot of creepers. One guy in particular I actually named Mr Creepy. He would stalk me at church! I finally talked to my bishop about him after he left a really ODD gift on my front porch (I think he'd collected all the freebies from mailers and bought me some smelly soap.) My bishop told me I needed to give him back the bag and tell him I didn't feel comfortable and wasn't interested. I thought that was ruder than rude, but followed his advice because Mr Creepy was SOOOO VERY CREEPY! Bishop said it was the only way to let a guy like that know I was in no remote part of my heart interested in him.
ReplyDeleteI did it the following Sunday. Mr Creepy stopped sticking to me like Velcro! I moved out of the ward a couple months later and got married a year later. Last month Mr Creepy walked into my work and I made a beeline to my boss and told him I didn't feel comfortable around Mr Creepy. My boss interceded and I lived to tell the story. ;)
One more word of advice from a mom who has been there...if the stuff Dear Bro Jo advises (and it's good advice) doesn't work, get a Civil Stop Stalking Injunction. It's free and worked for Dear Daughter. You will need to document the stalking, but it isn't hard to do. Just keep copies of texts, emails, voicemails, phone records, facebook messages, etc. Also your school's resource officer may be helpful if the stalking takes place at school. In Cheese's case the resource officer at her first school was not helpful at all. Then she switched schools and her Creeper actually followed her, transferring to her new school as well. The officer at the second school was able to look at surveillance video and show clips of the stalking right to the judge. The injunction was enough to stop this jerk.
ReplyDeleteThis guy used to stalk me and my friends and I were seriously freaked out. When he finally asked me out I just simply said "No, sorry." I don't know if that was appropriate or not but after that he stopped paying attention to me and moved on. When I see him now it's a bit weird but he won't give me those creepy looks anymore :)
ReplyDeleteAll the girls who voice complaints about "only attracting creepy guys and no one else", remember, there are good guys that are aware of what you say, and this will make us even less interested in dating you. Bro Jo brings up a good point: if the guy were cute, he could say/do many of the things you feel stalked with and you would think the guy is cute. Two guys can buy you flowers: you'll think the cute guy was chivalrous and you'll think the ugly guy was a creeper. Sure, you may encounter experiences with a "creepy" guy, but to say that you "only attract creeps and no one else" is ridiculous. Maybe you think you're cuter than what you actually are, cute enough to attract certain guys, but not cute enough to attract the type of guys you like. Most LDS guys are good guys. Many are inexperienced and don't know how to act around and communicate with girls. It makes it harder if the guy is around a girl that is also inexperienced with guys and she gets creeped out over ridiculous things. Examples of "creepy things that some girls from my Provo YSA recently have mentioned": a guy shorter than they said hello and tried to have a conversation/a guy from another race (Hispanic or black) asked them on a second date/a guy who asked a girl out to go to institute together on a date/a guy asked a girl to dance 3 different times in a ballroom dance/a guy brought a flower to a girl's apartment with a note requesting a date. I understand that a few guys here and there can in fact be dangerous predators, but I think most objective, unbiased (who don't take sides with guys or girls in Mormon YSA dating discussions) people could agree with me that the examples I mentioned above are just ridiculous on the girls part.
ReplyDeleteAs a guy, I promise that many guys really do want to have a girlfriend and get sealed to her. Many guys feel bad that they're not "good with the ladies" and they're willing to learn what is bad about them to change it. But when girls aren't interested in a guy, rather than telling him why, they dog him out to her friends or in sites like these. That doesn't help guys. Rather than be criticized (making guys hate dating even more and making guys annoyed at the pedestalled female gender), guys should be helped. We need more help than simply "go on more first dates"
Here's a tip to help guys:
ReplyDeletewhine less.
Here's another:
learn that women like, and deserve to be, put on a pedestal.
One more:
instead of being critical and feeling sorry for yourself, realize that "sites like these" offer TONS of the help you say you want.
Last one: realize the world doesn't revolve around you; there are REAL creepers out there, that's who we're talking about here, and girls who are voicing problems with them are expressing very real, very honest concerns.
I'm grinning as I write this, but in all seriousness, bro, girls are very attracted to guys who are sensitive, who put them on a pedestal befitting the princesses they are and the queens they'll one day become, and who have a positive attitude.
- Bro Jo
If they're into you then putting them on a pedestal and Being sensitive may work for some but if you're in the initial stage then be nice but don't grovel. Don't become the "nice guy" instead be a man who is nice. Huge difference nice guys finish last but guys who are nice always have dates and don't end up hating women.
DeleteOh I almost forgot: that same guy that you complain about and consider a creep, that same guy could be a guy that is depressed and struggles with low self esteem when it comes to girls and wants to be better. His intentions are good, but because he's not attractive and he's not talented with girls, you contribute to his depression. When the Savior refers to loving our neighbors, he doesn't stutter or make an exception for those of the opposite gender who are socially ungifted....
ReplyDeleteThat may be true, but he may just also be a creep.
ReplyDeleteRather than go on pity dates, I'm going to recommend that girls error on the side of Not Putting Themselves in Situations Where They Feel Threatened.
Social Anxiety is real.
Depression is Real.
And they can both be very serious.
But neither entitles someone to be a stalker; and neither will be solved on a date.
Brethren, and Sisters, if you have real social, emotional, or mental challenges, get counseling; get help.
Getting mad at someone who doesn't know your situation, or who your behavior freaks out, is not the solution.
Talk to your Bishop and have him refer you to a specialist.
There's nothing to be ashamed about when it comes to getting help
- Bro Jo
Readers,
ReplyDeleteI received the following comment this morning from someone who wanted to remain anonymous but accidentally signed their name.
To solve that, I'll post it under my name; all of the words are hers, exactly as she sent them to me.
- Bro Jo
As a mom to multiple teenage daughters (and Bro Jo - please don't use my name on this because we have some ongoing issues with creepers still) I have watched this happen multiple times, unfortunately.
One daughter had a guy who would repeatedly give her expensive gifts. The first time she returned it and said, "No thanks, not interested, not old enough to date" etc. Then he found some odd ways to give her other gifts - leaving them with the school office with an "anonymous" note attached but each time several days later he would ask her if she enjoyed it, etc.
Totally weird.
He finally graduated and moved on but I told her if he kept pushing for contact -asking for email addresses, phone numbers, etc - I was okay with getting a restraining order because MY radar was going nuts, let alone hers.
Have another daughter now that is dating a fellow fairly seriously but has another creeper sending her two and three emails a day begging for a date. he sends them from work and other inappropriate places even after she has told him, "Not interested, already dating seriously"
One thing that has helped from a mom's perspective is to go over the standards for abusive relationships and if more than one things send up red flags or their gut, or mine, says they are unsafe, then we talk about getting out of the situation - even if , or especially if, there is parental intervention needed.
There are some great guys out there, I agree, but there are also some seriously disturbed stalkers who need counseling or other help.
We have seen, personally, the damage a 'depressed' guy can do when a month into the relationship that the girl allowed to continue because she felt sorry for him, when she got totally creeped out and weird-ed out and wanted out all of a sudden he changed to "If you break up with me I will kill myself". Some people need a therapist far more than they need a date and a teenage girl is NOT a solution for your depression
Anonymous!!!
If you aren't happy single, it's unlikely that a relationship is going to change that. So I agree that pity dating someone that creeps you out ultimately solves nothing, and just makes the girl miserable too.
ReplyDeleteOr the guy.
ReplyDeleteGoes both ways, you know. Girls can be particularly talented at stalking.
And sometimes I think they can be scarier; playing the emotion card and spurred on by peers, parents, and society which have unfairly lead them to believe that their beauty and value are tied to whether or not they're in a relationship.
- Bro Jo
Ho boy. When I read this, I thought it was mine. My inbox says otherwise, but maybe I used a different account. Regardless, let's just say I can definitely relate to this post, whoever sent it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous dude, I feel I must address something you vented about in a rather jerkish manner. While Bro Jo did hint at it too, at least he didn't try to dogmatically declare it to be something every female does. I'm going to reply to it as if it were my post, and I'm certain more than a few readers will agree with me.
I don't judge by looks or personalities. It's shallow, though not as shallow as saying that all women do that. Just a hint, all that bitterness and judging is probably a big part of why you aren't having any success in the dating department. I assume you aren't because otherwise, why would you be writing this? I'll tell you one thing, bub, lashing out at the entire female gender certainly won't help your plight. I mean the sheer hypocrisy of judging all women by claiming they all judge solely by looks? Come on. Lose the chip on your shoulder, chin up, ease up on the intenseness, graciously and quickly move on when things don't go the way you want, and you'll be surprised how much better things start going, I guarantee it.
The best guy I ever dated was someone I'd never given so much as a second glance to. He seemed shy, slightly nerdy, and had some baggage too. But he had a kind heart, a strong testimony, and a million other wonderful things. On the other end of the spectrum, some of the biggest creeps to have ever creeped on me (or my friends) were pretty darn attractive, as far as looks go.
Not wanting to date a guy who (and these are all examples from various guys I've met)...texts creepy things literally nonstop from the wee hours of the morning to well into the night, throws tantrums like a little girl if you choose doing your homework over "hanging out" (which is a wussy way to ask anyway), follows you when you're with your friends, THROWS APPLIANCES when you politely decline (thank goodness I wasn't there in person), or tells you he wants to spend the rest of his life with you the day after you met (when you weren't even aware that)...is perfectly reasonable.
If he did any one of those things, he could look like Clark Kent for I care, he still wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck of taking me out on a date.
A righteous young woman doesn't care about looks or social suaveness (although those are nice), but nothing says we need to put up with borderline craziness. Ever.
No girl wants to be the Ice Queen, but with some guys, that seems to be what it takes. I haven't cowgirled up to being that blunt when the creepiness starts, but I should.
Sorry for the rant:)
Emilie,
ReplyDeleteI don't think you have anything to apologize for.
- Bro Jo
At first when I read Bro. Jo's comments about what guys want from girls (read his letter back he words it better), I totally disagreed with it, but the more I thought about it, its true. I just figure the great guys, are the ones that know how to wait for the appropriate time, even if an opportunity presents itself. Off topic from the last comments but a thought.
ReplyDeleteGirls just don't call a guy a creeper just because you don't like him or he doesn't mesh with you like other guys do. Stalking is serious and if you slander someone who isn't a stalker then how are you being Christlike. If you're old enough to date seriously then you should be old enough to be mature
ReplyDelete