Dear Bro Jo,
Hi Bro Jo!
This is more of a casual letter than anything. I thought it'd be an interesting topic to hear from you about. See, I'm a senior girl in high school, and I'll be graduating in 3-ish months, and going on to college. I'm kind of in that stage where I'm excited about college, and really hopeful it'll be better than high school, but I'm also nervous about it.
So I was wondering what advice you had on the college experience?
And just for guidelines, here's my list of what I'm excited about and what I'm nervous about.
Excited!!!
• Institute is NOT IN THE MORNING!!!!!!!!! I can SLEEP IN!!!!! =O
• I'll get to focus on my interests even more intently!
• I get to meet new people, and hopefully make new friends.
• I really really really really hope the Mormon guys there are a LOT COOLER than the ones here. Because the ones here all have girlfriends and won't go on dates with me and I'm kinda ticked at them. A lot.
• Maybe I can actually be NORMAL to some kind of group. (because I swear, I NEVER fit in)
• I can try out being an adult? I guess that's good.
NERVOUS
• K, well, top nervous thing is, I'm physically disabled. Not, like, in a wheelchair, but I have a chronic pain/fatigue thing, and disturbances in weather, stress, health, and time management can really mess me up. Like, I have to go to bed early, or I get sick. I can't walk too far (small campus, luckily) or I get sick. I can't do sportsy things or do a whole lot more activity than school and orchestra, or I get sick. Etc. ANNNND this means I haven't gotten to do a lot of YW activities. ANNNND this might be a problem for Institute/Single Adult stuff.
This is why I'm not normal.
• The idea of a roommate terrifies me. I requested either no roommate for health reasons, or LDS roommate on my housing form, but I'm still scared about it.
• I'm going into creative writing, and the thought of "PROFESSORS" also scares me. I just imagine this big tall scary guy telling me I will be a failure all my life and never get published. That does not sound fun.
• Also, I can't stay up late doing homework. See bullet point one.
• Um, what if I can't make friends? Bullet point one. Also, I have serious self-confidence issues, which I'm working on, but it makes it hard to make friends...
• And what if the dudes are creepers? How can I tell? How do I stay safe?
I think that's it. I think.
Anyway, whatever you'd like to throw in on this would be great! Thanks!
- College-Bound and Uncertain!
Dear College-bound,
It's good that you're Excited, and it’s okay that you're nervous.
My advice?
Relax. It's all going to be okay.
In fact, it’s going to be a blast!
- Bro Jo
Dating, Relationship and Other Advice for LDS Teens, Young Single Adults, and anyone else who could use a little help (since 2009) from someone who cares enough to give it to you straight.
Monday, August 28, 2017
Friday, August 18, 2017
Dating Like an Adult - Part 3
Dear Bro Jo,
I apologize if I came off as bitter and with a chip on my shoulder, that was not my intention. I do not feel any bitterness at all, I was merely trying to point out some flaws in your advice.
Your response back only serves to further prove my point.
The men I've dated have been good men, they are men who uphold their priesthood and are worthy to go to the Temple. The fact is, there is more to a relationship than that. Because you can go to the Temple if you choose to yell, and for you, yelling is a fact of life. You are ok with it.
But I am not. Yelling is a non-negotiable point in my relationships.
I don't yell, and I will not stand to be yelled at. My point is not to say that yelling is bad, or makes someone a bad person, but that for me, it's unacceptable. As were all the other things on the previous list I sent you. But they aren't going to be unacceptable for everyone, and they won't keep someone out of the Temple. There are other things that I will compromise on, and there are things on that
list that others will compromise on, just like you and yelling. That doesn't make me picky or irrational, that makes me someone who knows what they want in a relationship. In fact, Kimball's talk counsels us to not date everyone who is a worthy member of the church. He tells us to find someone of similar racial, social, economic and educational backgrounds. He tells us to find someone with whom we have common backgrounds, common ideals and standards, common beliefs, hopes, and
objectives. So to say that all of us never-marrieds are a combination of too picky, scared and whinny is simplifying the problem. There is so much more to look for in someone than just being a worthy member who is single and hard working.
I did not feel that I was twisting your words, you told me to look for three things, the same three things I should have been looking for at 19, and that all single adults are some combination of whinny, picky and scared. I submit to you, that neither of those things are true.
There are some of us that are whinny, picky and/or scared, but there are also 18 year olds that feel the same way. I'm sure there are married people that feel the same way. Because we are human, and those
are human things to feel. But to place a blanket statement that we are all some combination of those things, and that because of that we are not getting married, is a little insulting.
Saying that is throwing the stereotypes that we hear all the time in my face. I almost did not respond to this email, as it seems that the communication between us is damaged. But I read the email thread to a friend of mine and it literally left her in tears.
Her feeling after reading your thoughts were not ones of inspiration or motivation, but despair. The general sentiment of 'there is something wrong with you' was what she took from your email.
Perhaps there are no good answers.
Maybe when dealing with the gap of understanding between the never-marrieds and the marrieds there is no middle ground. I don't know.
But I do know that there are many souls lost along the journey of single adult-ness, and that is due, in part to the feelings that my friend gets when she reads your email. Because we often feel judged and misunderstood.
I say that with no bitterness, just sadness.
- NW
Dear NW,
Well, I'm glad you wrote back.
I'm sorry your friend is sad.
I've been pondering your emails and my responses for several days . . .
Let's start again.
Believe it or not, I and many others in the Church that I know, are well aware of, concerned about, and want to help members who find themselves on the older end of single.
Not because I think marriage will cure all of your troubles, but because I've talked to many in your
circumstance who've expressed the same feelings and thoughts that you have.
That said, let me share three things:
1. If you're looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear, I'm not your guy. I give my straight honest opinions to the best of my ability; I care for people too much to be fake. My biggest fans don't agree with everything I write (heck, Sister Jo doesn't always agree, either), and that's okay. I'm not always right, but if you find yourself angry or disagreeing I invite you to consider that those feelings may be because the truth is sometimes painful.
2. I'm married now, and have been for over 25 years, but before then I was a not-yet-married, just like you.
3. Email doesn't convey tone very well. I often try to inject a little humor, for various reasons. My quip about yelling was a joke.
That said, if we go back to your original email . . . what is your question for me?
- Bro Jo
I apologize if I came off as bitter and with a chip on my shoulder, that was not my intention. I do not feel any bitterness at all, I was merely trying to point out some flaws in your advice.
Your response back only serves to further prove my point.
The men I've dated have been good men, they are men who uphold their priesthood and are worthy to go to the Temple. The fact is, there is more to a relationship than that. Because you can go to the Temple if you choose to yell, and for you, yelling is a fact of life. You are ok with it.
But I am not. Yelling is a non-negotiable point in my relationships.
I don't yell, and I will not stand to be yelled at. My point is not to say that yelling is bad, or makes someone a bad person, but that for me, it's unacceptable. As were all the other things on the previous list I sent you. But they aren't going to be unacceptable for everyone, and they won't keep someone out of the Temple. There are other things that I will compromise on, and there are things on that
list that others will compromise on, just like you and yelling. That doesn't make me picky or irrational, that makes me someone who knows what they want in a relationship. In fact, Kimball's talk counsels us to not date everyone who is a worthy member of the church. He tells us to find someone of similar racial, social, economic and educational backgrounds. He tells us to find someone with whom we have common backgrounds, common ideals and standards, common beliefs, hopes, and
objectives. So to say that all of us never-marrieds are a combination of too picky, scared and whinny is simplifying the problem. There is so much more to look for in someone than just being a worthy member who is single and hard working.
I did not feel that I was twisting your words, you told me to look for three things, the same three things I should have been looking for at 19, and that all single adults are some combination of whinny, picky and scared. I submit to you, that neither of those things are true.
There are some of us that are whinny, picky and/or scared, but there are also 18 year olds that feel the same way. I'm sure there are married people that feel the same way. Because we are human, and those
are human things to feel. But to place a blanket statement that we are all some combination of those things, and that because of that we are not getting married, is a little insulting.
Saying that is throwing the stereotypes that we hear all the time in my face. I almost did not respond to this email, as it seems that the communication between us is damaged. But I read the email thread to a friend of mine and it literally left her in tears.
Her feeling after reading your thoughts were not ones of inspiration or motivation, but despair. The general sentiment of 'there is something wrong with you' was what she took from your email.
Perhaps there are no good answers.
Maybe when dealing with the gap of understanding between the never-marrieds and the marrieds there is no middle ground. I don't know.
But I do know that there are many souls lost along the journey of single adult-ness, and that is due, in part to the feelings that my friend gets when she reads your email. Because we often feel judged and misunderstood.
I say that with no bitterness, just sadness.
- NW
Dear NW,
Well, I'm glad you wrote back.
I'm sorry your friend is sad.
I've been pondering your emails and my responses for several days . . .
Let's start again.
Believe it or not, I and many others in the Church that I know, are well aware of, concerned about, and want to help members who find themselves on the older end of single.
Not because I think marriage will cure all of your troubles, but because I've talked to many in your
circumstance who've expressed the same feelings and thoughts that you have.
That said, let me share three things:
1. If you're looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear, I'm not your guy. I give my straight honest opinions to the best of my ability; I care for people too much to be fake. My biggest fans don't agree with everything I write (heck, Sister Jo doesn't always agree, either), and that's okay. I'm not always right, but if you find yourself angry or disagreeing I invite you to consider that those feelings may be because the truth is sometimes painful.
2. I'm married now, and have been for over 25 years, but before then I was a not-yet-married, just like you.
3. Email doesn't convey tone very well. I often try to inject a little humor, for various reasons. My quip about yelling was a joke.
That said, if we go back to your original email . . . what is your question for me?
- Bro Jo
Wednesday, August 16, 2017
Dating Like an Adult - Part 2
Dear Bro Jo,
I have often heard the President Kimball quote that you shared. I think there was a point in my life where I believed that to be true, that two worthy members of the church who loved God could have a happy marriage, but it seems to be much more complicated than that now. You see, as I sit and think about it, I reflect on my past relationships with good men, men who were worthy priesthood holders and I realize that you can still be a worthy member and be all of the following things:
You can resort to yelling in an argument; you can tell racist jokes; you can talk down to people who don't share your beliefs; you cannot like children; you cannot care about education; you cannot be good at managing money and planning for the future; you can be unhappy and rude, you can feel entitled, you can be disrespectful and hurtful; you can mock things that are important to me. You can be any of these things and more, and still be Temple worthy.
Everyone has faults, believe me, I understand that. But I just don't believe that just because someone is a worthy member of the church I could marry them and be happy. I don't think we can discount
personalities and the importance they play in finding a compatible companion. To say that all I need to do is look for a single, worthy member, who works hard, seems to cheapen the idea of eternal marriage.
This is someone I'm going to spend eternity with! Eternity! Shouldn't there be more of a connection than just "Hey! You're a hard working, single, member? So am I! High Fives! Let's get married!"?
I am okay with my single status, in the sense that I am happy with my life. I walked out on the meeting because I am not okay sitting an listening to a 45 minute talk that makes me feel like less of a person because I am not married.
Every covenant I've made in the church has been about me and my relationship with the Lord. Marriage includes another person, and their agency. The doctrine that if you aren't married you can't make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom becomes harder and harder to swallow as you get older and are still single.
You responded in the same way many have to this question. Quit being whinny, picky and scared, find anyone who is worthy and get on board, and dating is the same at 30 as it is at 18. If this is how the single adults are viewed, it's no wonder that we feel alienated and misunderstood.
- Name Withheld
Dear NW,
I'm sorry, I thought you said that you had been in relationships with GOOD men; the kind of guys you just described don't, in my opinion, qualify.
Except for yelling. I have no problem with yelling. Not all the time, but sometimes it's just a fact of life.
As for everything else you wrote . . . gosh, where do I start?
First of all, I very clearly pointed out that dating at 39 and 18 are different.
Secondly, I think you need to go READ THE TALK. You're missing stuff.
Third, I think our dialog is going to go much better when you can take that chip off your shoulder and open up a little. I can help you, but you're going to have to stop twisting what I say. I know it's tough in an email, but I think we can do it. It seems to me like you're extremi-fying everything. And, frankly, I think a lot of your bitterness is self-inflicted.
If you really want to find the kind of love you're talking about, it's going to take some work, some risk, some trust, some patience, some opening up, and some understanding.
- Bro Jo
I have often heard the President Kimball quote that you shared. I think there was a point in my life where I believed that to be true, that two worthy members of the church who loved God could have a happy marriage, but it seems to be much more complicated than that now. You see, as I sit and think about it, I reflect on my past relationships with good men, men who were worthy priesthood holders and I realize that you can still be a worthy member and be all of the following things:
You can resort to yelling in an argument; you can tell racist jokes; you can talk down to people who don't share your beliefs; you cannot like children; you cannot care about education; you cannot be good at managing money and planning for the future; you can be unhappy and rude, you can feel entitled, you can be disrespectful and hurtful; you can mock things that are important to me. You can be any of these things and more, and still be Temple worthy.
Everyone has faults, believe me, I understand that. But I just don't believe that just because someone is a worthy member of the church I could marry them and be happy. I don't think we can discount
personalities and the importance they play in finding a compatible companion. To say that all I need to do is look for a single, worthy member, who works hard, seems to cheapen the idea of eternal marriage.
This is someone I'm going to spend eternity with! Eternity! Shouldn't there be more of a connection than just "Hey! You're a hard working, single, member? So am I! High Fives! Let's get married!"?
I am okay with my single status, in the sense that I am happy with my life. I walked out on the meeting because I am not okay sitting an listening to a 45 minute talk that makes me feel like less of a person because I am not married.
Every covenant I've made in the church has been about me and my relationship with the Lord. Marriage includes another person, and their agency. The doctrine that if you aren't married you can't make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom becomes harder and harder to swallow as you get older and are still single.
You responded in the same way many have to this question. Quit being whinny, picky and scared, find anyone who is worthy and get on board, and dating is the same at 30 as it is at 18. If this is how the single adults are viewed, it's no wonder that we feel alienated and misunderstood.
- Name Withheld
Dear NW,
I'm sorry, I thought you said that you had been in relationships with GOOD men; the kind of guys you just described don't, in my opinion, qualify.
Except for yelling. I have no problem with yelling. Not all the time, but sometimes it's just a fact of life.
As for everything else you wrote . . . gosh, where do I start?
First of all, I very clearly pointed out that dating at 39 and 18 are different.
Secondly, I think you need to go READ THE TALK. You're missing stuff.
Third, I think our dialog is going to go much better when you can take that chip off your shoulder and open up a little. I can help you, but you're going to have to stop twisting what I say. I know it's tough in an email, but I think we can do it. It seems to me like you're extremi-fying everything. And, frankly, I think a lot of your bitterness is self-inflicted.
If you really want to find the kind of love you're talking about, it's going to take some work, some risk, some trust, some patience, some opening up, and some understanding.
- Bro Jo
Monday, August 14, 2017
Dating Like an Adult - Part 1
Dear Bro Jo,
First let me introduce myself, I feel that I am different than the normal demographic that reads your blog. I am a 29 year old, single, educated, working professional who teaches in the inner-city. I am a returned missionary who is active in the church and in my calling. I consider myself to be well put together, mentally and physically healthy, and overall a very happy person. I do not mind my single status, and feel no pressure to give up or settle. I have spiritual and secular goals and a job that give my life great meaning. I wake up every day with a smile on my face ready to face the challenges of life.
But I struggle with dating. I'm going to be very honest; being "older" and single in the church is confusing at best. I feel that this is an area where the guidance of the church has failed to give direction. The rules of dating change dramatically between the ages of 16 and 18, but very little (if at all) between 18 and up. I understand that some things just don't change, the standards of the church don't magically bend after a certain age, but there must be some difference in the way we date as we age, right? I am certainty not the same person I was 11 years ago. To be clear, I'm not looking for new rules or a new set of commandments, just guidance or perhaps just your thoughts and advice on dating as a single adult. More than anything, I feel as though I'm in a state of perpetual adolescence. Most of the time I feel like I still date like a 16 year old girl.
Months ago I was at Stake Conference, and a talk was being given about the sanctity of marriage. The speaker was discussing the special bond between husband and wife, and the sexual relationship between them. I understood what he was saying, but I was filled with sadness and bitterness to the point where I left the room. I looked around the room and saw these young couples, girls who looked not a day over 19, married with their husbands’ arms around them. They take for granted the basic human interaction of sex, something that I am deprived of simply because I did not find a man to marry at a young age. They talk about sex and relationships like it's entirely sacred, used for procreation and to create bonds with your spouse, and I do believe that, but I also believe that they use it to satisfy base urges. I will keep my covenants, I have no desire to sin, but I am so tired of hearing people talk about this. I understand why I am waiting until marriage to have sex, but sometimes I feel like people ignore the single adults, and the struggle that we feel and the things that we are deprived of because we have not found someone who we want to be with for eternity. I often feel that I am set aside as a single woman in the church. I attend a family ward, primarily because I felt the singles ward was becoming a "practice ward" for young members of the church who were figuring it out, and I wanted something more. My family ward has been great, aside from a few exceptions. For example, my visiting teacher partner regularly sets appointments and visits women without me, when asked, she tells me that she assumes that I am too busy to go with her because of my single life. It's the little things.
I fear that paragraph will paint me as a bitter, ranting, crazy lady, which is not my intent. I simply want to voice my concerns and feelings about playing the part of the adult adolescent.
I have been in several significant relationships, with good men, but not men that I would choose to spend eternity with. So here I sit, a righteous church member with a desire to date like an adult, find a spouse, and have the life experiences that seem so basic to so many people. Unfortunately I have no idea what any of those should or do look like.
- Name Withheld
Dear NW,
It's true that "Dear Bro Jo" has a large teen and YSA following, for which I'm certainly grateful, but you're not the only Single Over 27 that I’ve heard from.
I think the reasons for that are right along with what you've stated: many Latter-day Saints get married fairly young, at least by worldly standards, and for those that are still single as they cross into their mid-late 20's, Celestial Marriage options seem to dwindle dramatically. It's one of the Ironic Axioms of the Church, and I hear it all the time: "if you're not married by 25 it's tough to find anyone good because all the Good Ones are gone". Sure, it rings true on some level, but the irony is that the Church is full of Great People who will make Wonderful Spouses that just happen to be over 25 but aren't yet married.
I hear complaints about the YSA "meat market" that is prevalent in many University Wards, and that "all the guys over 25 in my Singles Ward are creeps and losers", which is of course matched by the number of "all the single women over 25 at Church are bitter and unpleasant" claims. I've met so many great people in your demographic that I refuse to believe either rant, but do you know what does ring true?
All of you are single because you're some combination of whinny, scared, and too picky. Old people like me often walk into a conference full of you guys and proclaim that we have no idea what your problem is; in the same room that you all see dozens of losers you'd never marry we see a bunch of great people that, were we younger and single, we'd feel lucky to get to date. Do you know why there's that difference? It's because we've been married long enough to realize that the things you are filtering out aren't really that important.
If you want to date like an adult, then the first thing you need to commit to is dating everyone that asks (of course meeting a limited criteria that I'll mention in a moment) and keeping an open mind. Look around your family ward; there's no such thing as a "hot 70-year old", and yet I'll bet that most all of the retirees in your ward have been married. Were they all knock-outs at 20? Nope. Are they all perfect? Heck no. Is it possible that they were all flawless spiritually, mentally and physically at 24? Not a chance!
Marriage is work. The key is not finding someone worth working for, but becoming someone who's willing to do the work that's required.
I ain't gonna lie: sex is great. But you're absolutely right that it should be saved for marriage. It's not enough of a reason to get married (though I agree that it should be at least a little motivational).
So what are the criteria that a young woman needs to keep in mind?
The same things at 30 that she should have been looking for at 19:
1. He's single.
2. He's a worthy and active priesthood holder.
3. He works hard at whatever he does.
That's it.
How about guys?
1. She's single.
2. She's worthy to take to the temple.
3. She'll be appreciative and supportive.
Nothing more is necessary.
It's like President Kimball said:
"If two people love the Lord more than their own lives and then love each other more than their own lives, working together in total harmony with the gospel program as their basic structure they are sure to have this great happiness."
(You can read the whole talk here -> http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6136 - and you should. Note that it was given 46 years ago, but still rings true as if spoken today)
You mentioned that you have been in "significant relationships with good men" but that you wouldn't chose to spend eternity with them. Unless they weren't as good as you say, I fail to see what the problem was. You chose them for a relationship, so clearly there was something there, and you said they were "good", so what was the problem?
You seem like a wonderful and thoughtful person, but with love I submit to you that if the above was true, the problem, dear sister, was you.
It's time for a self assessment; do a little grading fellow teacher. Instead of eliminating potential spouses from your life because of eternally unimportant reasons, look inward and ask "what would I need to do to be a Good Companion for that Good Person". The thing is you're NOT 16 anymore; this is not about whether or not the hunky popular guy is going to ask you to the Prom And you're not 19 anymore; the 37 year old divorced with three kids guy is no longer a creepy stalker.
Hey, if you were really "okay with your single status" you wouldn't have walked out of the room and you wouldn't have written me. I understand that finding a Good Person to marry over 30 is going to be a challenge, but it's not impossible.
Let me give you one more point to back up my argument: couples in the Church who have been married for some time and then suddenly find themselves single, because of divorce or death, when motivated to remarry seem to have much less trouble than you never-been-married people, and they come back into the dating world with way more baggage (kids, mortgages, hang-ups) than you do.
Figure out why that is, and you'll be much further along your path towards Dating Like an Adult.
- Bro Jo
First let me introduce myself, I feel that I am different than the normal demographic that reads your blog. I am a 29 year old, single, educated, working professional who teaches in the inner-city. I am a returned missionary who is active in the church and in my calling. I consider myself to be well put together, mentally and physically healthy, and overall a very happy person. I do not mind my single status, and feel no pressure to give up or settle. I have spiritual and secular goals and a job that give my life great meaning. I wake up every day with a smile on my face ready to face the challenges of life.
But I struggle with dating. I'm going to be very honest; being "older" and single in the church is confusing at best. I feel that this is an area where the guidance of the church has failed to give direction. The rules of dating change dramatically between the ages of 16 and 18, but very little (if at all) between 18 and up. I understand that some things just don't change, the standards of the church don't magically bend after a certain age, but there must be some difference in the way we date as we age, right? I am certainty not the same person I was 11 years ago. To be clear, I'm not looking for new rules or a new set of commandments, just guidance or perhaps just your thoughts and advice on dating as a single adult. More than anything, I feel as though I'm in a state of perpetual adolescence. Most of the time I feel like I still date like a 16 year old girl.
Months ago I was at Stake Conference, and a talk was being given about the sanctity of marriage. The speaker was discussing the special bond between husband and wife, and the sexual relationship between them. I understood what he was saying, but I was filled with sadness and bitterness to the point where I left the room. I looked around the room and saw these young couples, girls who looked not a day over 19, married with their husbands’ arms around them. They take for granted the basic human interaction of sex, something that I am deprived of simply because I did not find a man to marry at a young age. They talk about sex and relationships like it's entirely sacred, used for procreation and to create bonds with your spouse, and I do believe that, but I also believe that they use it to satisfy base urges. I will keep my covenants, I have no desire to sin, but I am so tired of hearing people talk about this. I understand why I am waiting until marriage to have sex, but sometimes I feel like people ignore the single adults, and the struggle that we feel and the things that we are deprived of because we have not found someone who we want to be with for eternity. I often feel that I am set aside as a single woman in the church. I attend a family ward, primarily because I felt the singles ward was becoming a "practice ward" for young members of the church who were figuring it out, and I wanted something more. My family ward has been great, aside from a few exceptions. For example, my visiting teacher partner regularly sets appointments and visits women without me, when asked, she tells me that she assumes that I am too busy to go with her because of my single life. It's the little things.
I fear that paragraph will paint me as a bitter, ranting, crazy lady, which is not my intent. I simply want to voice my concerns and feelings about playing the part of the adult adolescent.
I have been in several significant relationships, with good men, but not men that I would choose to spend eternity with. So here I sit, a righteous church member with a desire to date like an adult, find a spouse, and have the life experiences that seem so basic to so many people. Unfortunately I have no idea what any of those should or do look like.
- Name Withheld
Dear NW,
It's true that "Dear Bro Jo" has a large teen and YSA following, for which I'm certainly grateful, but you're not the only Single Over 27 that I’ve heard from.
I think the reasons for that are right along with what you've stated: many Latter-day Saints get married fairly young, at least by worldly standards, and for those that are still single as they cross into their mid-late 20's, Celestial Marriage options seem to dwindle dramatically. It's one of the Ironic Axioms of the Church, and I hear it all the time: "if you're not married by 25 it's tough to find anyone good because all the Good Ones are gone". Sure, it rings true on some level, but the irony is that the Church is full of Great People who will make Wonderful Spouses that just happen to be over 25 but aren't yet married.
I hear complaints about the YSA "meat market" that is prevalent in many University Wards, and that "all the guys over 25 in my Singles Ward are creeps and losers", which is of course matched by the number of "all the single women over 25 at Church are bitter and unpleasant" claims. I've met so many great people in your demographic that I refuse to believe either rant, but do you know what does ring true?
All of you are single because you're some combination of whinny, scared, and too picky. Old people like me often walk into a conference full of you guys and proclaim that we have no idea what your problem is; in the same room that you all see dozens of losers you'd never marry we see a bunch of great people that, were we younger and single, we'd feel lucky to get to date. Do you know why there's that difference? It's because we've been married long enough to realize that the things you are filtering out aren't really that important.
If you want to date like an adult, then the first thing you need to commit to is dating everyone that asks (of course meeting a limited criteria that I'll mention in a moment) and keeping an open mind. Look around your family ward; there's no such thing as a "hot 70-year old", and yet I'll bet that most all of the retirees in your ward have been married. Were they all knock-outs at 20? Nope. Are they all perfect? Heck no. Is it possible that they were all flawless spiritually, mentally and physically at 24? Not a chance!
Marriage is work. The key is not finding someone worth working for, but becoming someone who's willing to do the work that's required.
I ain't gonna lie: sex is great. But you're absolutely right that it should be saved for marriage. It's not enough of a reason to get married (though I agree that it should be at least a little motivational).
So what are the criteria that a young woman needs to keep in mind?
The same things at 30 that she should have been looking for at 19:
1. He's single.
2. He's a worthy and active priesthood holder.
3. He works hard at whatever he does.
That's it.
How about guys?
1. She's single.
2. She's worthy to take to the temple.
3. She'll be appreciative and supportive.
Nothing more is necessary.
It's like President Kimball said:
"If two people love the Lord more than their own lives and then love each other more than their own lives, working together in total harmony with the gospel program as their basic structure they are sure to have this great happiness."
(You can read the whole talk here -> http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6136 - and you should. Note that it was given 46 years ago, but still rings true as if spoken today)
You mentioned that you have been in "significant relationships with good men" but that you wouldn't chose to spend eternity with them. Unless they weren't as good as you say, I fail to see what the problem was. You chose them for a relationship, so clearly there was something there, and you said they were "good", so what was the problem?
You seem like a wonderful and thoughtful person, but with love I submit to you that if the above was true, the problem, dear sister, was you.
It's time for a self assessment; do a little grading fellow teacher. Instead of eliminating potential spouses from your life because of eternally unimportant reasons, look inward and ask "what would I need to do to be a Good Companion for that Good Person". The thing is you're NOT 16 anymore; this is not about whether or not the hunky popular guy is going to ask you to the Prom And you're not 19 anymore; the 37 year old divorced with three kids guy is no longer a creepy stalker.
Hey, if you were really "okay with your single status" you wouldn't have walked out of the room and you wouldn't have written me. I understand that finding a Good Person to marry over 30 is going to be a challenge, but it's not impossible.
Let me give you one more point to back up my argument: couples in the Church who have been married for some time and then suddenly find themselves single, because of divorce or death, when motivated to remarry seem to have much less trouble than you never-been-married people, and they come back into the dating world with way more baggage (kids, mortgages, hang-ups) than you do.
Figure out why that is, and you'll be much further along your path towards Dating Like an Adult.
- Bro Jo
Friday, August 11, 2017
Is This Love? - Part 3
Dear Bro Jo,
Hey I just wanted to let you know, that the girl that I was dating, is now my fiance!
Yup. We got engaged a couple of days ago. I love her so much and I'm super excited for our future together.
I was wondering if you had any advice for a newly engaged couple?
Is there anything that we should do that's really important before we get married?
We already have begun to understand how hard it is to keep ourselves under control with each other until we're married, so we've set up boundaries to help keep us temple worthy.
If there's anything that you can think of that would help, in any regard, then let me know.
Thanks!
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
Good for you!
Like so much of what's true in the Gospel being those things that seem obvious, the same can be said for the things we should do before we get married:
1. Stay worthy (which you clearly know)
2. Meet each other's families (marriage, after all, is about joining families together)
3. Talk and plan (you can't know everything there is to know about each other, but you should be discussing the important things and making plans and comparing hopes and dreams and worries and stuff)
Congratulations!
- Bro Jo
Hey I just wanted to let you know, that the girl that I was dating, is now my fiance!
Yup. We got engaged a couple of days ago. I love her so much and I'm super excited for our future together.
I was wondering if you had any advice for a newly engaged couple?
Is there anything that we should do that's really important before we get married?
We already have begun to understand how hard it is to keep ourselves under control with each other until we're married, so we've set up boundaries to help keep us temple worthy.
If there's anything that you can think of that would help, in any regard, then let me know.
Thanks!
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
Good for you!
Like so much of what's true in the Gospel being those things that seem obvious, the same can be said for the things we should do before we get married:
1. Stay worthy (which you clearly know)
2. Meet each other's families (marriage, after all, is about joining families together)
3. Talk and plan (you can't know everything there is to know about each other, but you should be discussing the important things and making plans and comparing hopes and dreams and worries and stuff)
Congratulations!
- Bro Jo
Wednesday, August 9, 2017
Is This Love? - Part 2
Dear Bro Jo,
Thank you so much for answering this. I'm realizing more and more that I really do love her.
What you said about infatuation has really struck out to me because all I really have to compare this relationship to is an experience that I had before this relationship started.
I went on 3 dates with another girl and whenever I was around her, I had that butterfly feeling in my stomach. It was so strong that it was difficult to eat around her or even trying to fall asleep was hard because I was always thinking about her. I wanted us to have a relationship, but she didn't, so it ended.
What you've said, and a lot of thinking, has made it clear in my mind that I was infatuated with her. But because of my lack of experience, I've been expecting that feeling in my current relationship.
However, I'm beginning to discern that what I had previously for this other girl and what I have now for the amazing girl that I'm dating, are two different things. I did not love the girl that I dated 3 times. It was powerful, but short lived.
I do love the girl that I am dating now. I feel that I would do anything for her if she needed me to. I know that what I have now is much longer lasting and I can't wait to see where our relationship goes :D
Sincerely,
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
Brilliant.
Good luck, God bless, and keep us posted!
- Bro Jo
Thank you so much for answering this. I'm realizing more and more that I really do love her.
What you said about infatuation has really struck out to me because all I really have to compare this relationship to is an experience that I had before this relationship started.
I went on 3 dates with another girl and whenever I was around her, I had that butterfly feeling in my stomach. It was so strong that it was difficult to eat around her or even trying to fall asleep was hard because I was always thinking about her. I wanted us to have a relationship, but she didn't, so it ended.
What you've said, and a lot of thinking, has made it clear in my mind that I was infatuated with her. But because of my lack of experience, I've been expecting that feeling in my current relationship.
However, I'm beginning to discern that what I had previously for this other girl and what I have now for the amazing girl that I'm dating, are two different things. I did not love the girl that I dated 3 times. It was powerful, but short lived.
I do love the girl that I am dating now. I feel that I would do anything for her if she needed me to. I know that what I have now is much longer lasting and I can't wait to see where our relationship goes :D
Sincerely,
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
Brilliant.
Good luck, God bless, and keep us posted!
- Bro Jo
Monday, August 7, 2017
Is This Love? - Part 1
Dear Bro Jo,
I've recently returned from my mission about 3 months ago and have begun dating since I've gotten back.
About a month ago, I recently entered into my first ever relationship with an amazing girl.
I've grown to like her a lot over time, and I'd say that I even have grown to love her. I can see myself getting married to her quite easily. We've talked a lot about marriage and getting married and what it might be like if we got married.
The idea of being there to help her through anything she might be going through comes easily to me as well. Like, if she ever got sick, I'd be more than happy to help nurse her back to health. If she got fired from her job or something happened to her family, I wouldn't hesitate to be there for her. She's very kind, sweet, really funny, attractive, and I especially think that she'd make a good mother and wife. I actually feel like I trust her more than I've ever trusted anybody. We've shared a lot about ourselves with each other and every time I'm around her I feel very calm and peaceful.
However, I feel like something is missing still...
Maybe that's because it's only been a month, but even though I love her to this extent, I still feel like something just isn't there yet. I don't feel like I'm head over heels for her. In my mind, being head over heels for her would mean that whenever I'm around her, I'd get like butterflies in my stomach and I'd be nervous around her, but super excited and I would have really strong feelings towards her.
True, I do get excited when I think of being with her, but not every time and it doesn't feel like it's to a huge degree. As I mentioned, I just feel calm and peaceful around her, like super comfortable, not the butterfly feeling I'm expecting. I don't have much dating experience, so I don't really know how I'm supposed to feel around her, but I guess in my mind I'm supposed to feel stronger feelings towards her.
It's possible that it may be that I just don't love her enough yet. I suppose in my mind, I imagined that love kinda just happens right away. Like, I feel like I should have fallen in love with her head over heels by now.
Is it possible that I'll fall deeper in love with her until I am crazy in love with her?
Does it take time to establish that special connection that I'm searching for and to fall in love?
Or is that something that happens right away and I've missed it?
I really like her and I don't want our relationship to end. I want to keep trying to find that special connection that I feel like I'm missing. I'm just scared that I won't find it and that our relationship will end. But I like her so much!
How can I find this true love (or that special connection I'm looking to feel)?
Sincerely,
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
We'll cut you some slack because you're fresh off the boat and have been raised in our modern culture where love has been twisted and confused.
The feelings you are describing that you have for her ARE love.
The things you "think" you're supposed to have and don't at this point in time ARE NOT love.
Infatuation, maybe, but not love.
You've fallen into the trap that is all too common, especially among today's Latter-day Saint Young Single Adults. The "exciting / sexy / butterflies" feelings are what Hollywood has sold as romance. Nice, yes, but unrealistic and unreasonable.
(Think for a moment: how is the track record of the rich and famous when it comes to marrying one person and being with them for Time and All Eternity? I'm telling you, my brother, they just don't get it at all.) And even when it does happen in a relationship not only is it not enough to build upon, it doesn't last. (Again, this is why Hollywood types divorce so quickly. Once the "excitement" is gone there's no relationship there. Their relationships lack substance and commitment, so after they've done the things couples are supposed to save for marriage they become bored and begin looking for the next infatuation, never realizing it isn't love that they're seeking. Sad. Really.)
First of all, your're right: your relationship is very new. However, perhaps because of the Spirit (which you may be so in-tune with because you're recently back), perhaps because you've matured into a clear-thinking adult (that's a good thing, btw), and perhaps because she is such an amazing woman . . . it seems to me that you've "skipped over" (also a very good thing) the immaturity that is so prevalent in young relationships.
There's no such thing as "love at first sight" . . . horny-ness, yes . . . a confirmation of the Spirit, sure . . . sometimes . . .
But love starts as a seed that grows stronger and more deeply over time.
And no amount of "so pretty and exciting that I can't breathe" is ever worth giving up the Trust and Selflessness and Sacrifice and Security and Eternal Together Forever Joy that grows out of the Love you feel now.
(Many a man - and woman, I suppose - has been lured away from something True by the Illusion of Something Exciting - read those words carefully, please - don't make that mistake.)
For now I think you should give yourself more time in the relationship. See how you feel after three months. And then, if necessary, after six. If you're still unsure then, let's talk again.
(We can of course talk anytime you like. Just making a point.)
- Bro Jo
I've recently returned from my mission about 3 months ago and have begun dating since I've gotten back.
About a month ago, I recently entered into my first ever relationship with an amazing girl.
I've grown to like her a lot over time, and I'd say that I even have grown to love her. I can see myself getting married to her quite easily. We've talked a lot about marriage and getting married and what it might be like if we got married.
The idea of being there to help her through anything she might be going through comes easily to me as well. Like, if she ever got sick, I'd be more than happy to help nurse her back to health. If she got fired from her job or something happened to her family, I wouldn't hesitate to be there for her. She's very kind, sweet, really funny, attractive, and I especially think that she'd make a good mother and wife. I actually feel like I trust her more than I've ever trusted anybody. We've shared a lot about ourselves with each other and every time I'm around her I feel very calm and peaceful.
However, I feel like something is missing still...
Maybe that's because it's only been a month, but even though I love her to this extent, I still feel like something just isn't there yet. I don't feel like I'm head over heels for her. In my mind, being head over heels for her would mean that whenever I'm around her, I'd get like butterflies in my stomach and I'd be nervous around her, but super excited and I would have really strong feelings towards her.
True, I do get excited when I think of being with her, but not every time and it doesn't feel like it's to a huge degree. As I mentioned, I just feel calm and peaceful around her, like super comfortable, not the butterfly feeling I'm expecting. I don't have much dating experience, so I don't really know how I'm supposed to feel around her, but I guess in my mind I'm supposed to feel stronger feelings towards her.
It's possible that it may be that I just don't love her enough yet. I suppose in my mind, I imagined that love kinda just happens right away. Like, I feel like I should have fallen in love with her head over heels by now.
Is it possible that I'll fall deeper in love with her until I am crazy in love with her?
Does it take time to establish that special connection that I'm searching for and to fall in love?
Or is that something that happens right away and I've missed it?
I really like her and I don't want our relationship to end. I want to keep trying to find that special connection that I feel like I'm missing. I'm just scared that I won't find it and that our relationship will end. But I like her so much!
How can I find this true love (or that special connection I'm looking to feel)?
Sincerely,
- Love Seeker
Dear Seeker,
We'll cut you some slack because you're fresh off the boat and have been raised in our modern culture where love has been twisted and confused.
The feelings you are describing that you have for her ARE love.
The things you "think" you're supposed to have and don't at this point in time ARE NOT love.
Infatuation, maybe, but not love.
You've fallen into the trap that is all too common, especially among today's Latter-day Saint Young Single Adults. The "exciting / sexy / butterflies" feelings are what Hollywood has sold as romance. Nice, yes, but unrealistic and unreasonable.
(Think for a moment: how is the track record of the rich and famous when it comes to marrying one person and being with them for Time and All Eternity? I'm telling you, my brother, they just don't get it at all.) And even when it does happen in a relationship not only is it not enough to build upon, it doesn't last. (Again, this is why Hollywood types divorce so quickly. Once the "excitement" is gone there's no relationship there. Their relationships lack substance and commitment, so after they've done the things couples are supposed to save for marriage they become bored and begin looking for the next infatuation, never realizing it isn't love that they're seeking. Sad. Really.)
First of all, your're right: your relationship is very new. However, perhaps because of the Spirit (which you may be so in-tune with because you're recently back), perhaps because you've matured into a clear-thinking adult (that's a good thing, btw), and perhaps because she is such an amazing woman . . . it seems to me that you've "skipped over" (also a very good thing) the immaturity that is so prevalent in young relationships.
There's no such thing as "love at first sight" . . . horny-ness, yes . . . a confirmation of the Spirit, sure . . . sometimes . . .
But love starts as a seed that grows stronger and more deeply over time.
And no amount of "so pretty and exciting that I can't breathe" is ever worth giving up the Trust and Selflessness and Sacrifice and Security and Eternal Together Forever Joy that grows out of the Love you feel now.
(Many a man - and woman, I suppose - has been lured away from something True by the Illusion of Something Exciting - read those words carefully, please - don't make that mistake.)
For now I think you should give yourself more time in the relationship. See how you feel after three months. And then, if necessary, after six. If you're still unsure then, let's talk again.
(We can of course talk anytime you like. Just making a point.)
- Bro Jo
Wednesday, August 2, 2017
What If This Relationship Turns Into Something?
Dear Bro Jo,
I figured I may as well give this a try and save myself worrying all week (or longer)!
I am 21 years old and in YSA. Although I live in a university town there is not a strong base of YSA in my area. Mainly due to lots of inactivity and the Church is still growing here.
Basically I want to date, and I have.
I've been on several dates in the past few months, most with members, but a few not. I've found it really fun and enjoyable and great way to get out of my shell and grow.
I think all of the guys have felt the same way.
But I have met this one guy, who just came home from his mission, and I have to admit I am rather smitten (more like just a puppy crush). But we went out last weekend with a group.
It was super confusing because I didn't know if I was really on a date with him or the other guy who came. But I just didn't stress it and had fun with the group. Then we didn't talk for days until he asked me out for dinner and to a dance this Friday.
Then on Saturday we went to another city together to hang out with other YSA in our Stake. Conversation seems to flow, and I really enjoy getting to know him. But.. (yes there is always a but) I'm not worried if he likes me or not, I figure that will happen and be figured out when it does. But I am concerned about how I feel. I've never been in a serious relationship (ever) or anything like that.
And that is because every time I start getting close I just kind of freak out.
It is scary.
I mean, what if it actually turns in to something? And the what - if's continue. Plus I've always felt so strongly about schooling and the importance of that in my life, and I feel awful that spending all this time with this guy has taken a toll on my grades and my focus. But I know that shouldn't be my main concern. I mean the temple should be my goal, and it is. But why do I feel the need to avoid it as long as possible. Like it actually just grips me with fear and all this anxiety. I guess I'm rambling, but I'm just not sure how to shift my priorities. OR make sure that I can handle both.
I have had many friends recently married and that just adds to pressure and then I look at their lives and realize they are so happy and feel guilty that that isn't what I want for years... It just doesn't seem like the right attitude, but I'm not sure what to do..
Help?
- Torn
Dear Torn,
I don't think you need to "do" anything.
Enjoy the moments. Write about them in your journal. Pray often that the Spirit will guide you and that you'll be able to understand what the Lord's will is.
And live life.
In other words: get over it.
Look, life is about change and adaptation. Regardless of what anyone's plans are, things change.
Very few people, at any age, would have been able to guess five years ago what their life would be like today, and no one can predict all of the things that will happen in the next five years. Think about it. Where were you five years ago? Could you have known all that you know now?
Well, guess what? The next five years are going to be just as eventful.
You'll be fine.
Trust in God.
Obey the commandments.
Repent.
Go to Church.
Read your scriptures.
And breathe.
Like Ferris says: "life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while . . . you could miss it".
- Bro Jo
I figured I may as well give this a try and save myself worrying all week (or longer)!
I am 21 years old and in YSA. Although I live in a university town there is not a strong base of YSA in my area. Mainly due to lots of inactivity and the Church is still growing here.
Basically I want to date, and I have.
I've been on several dates in the past few months, most with members, but a few not. I've found it really fun and enjoyable and great way to get out of my shell and grow.
I think all of the guys have felt the same way.
But I have met this one guy, who just came home from his mission, and I have to admit I am rather smitten (more like just a puppy crush). But we went out last weekend with a group.
It was super confusing because I didn't know if I was really on a date with him or the other guy who came. But I just didn't stress it and had fun with the group. Then we didn't talk for days until he asked me out for dinner and to a dance this Friday.
Then on Saturday we went to another city together to hang out with other YSA in our Stake. Conversation seems to flow, and I really enjoy getting to know him. But.. (yes there is always a but) I'm not worried if he likes me or not, I figure that will happen and be figured out when it does. But I am concerned about how I feel. I've never been in a serious relationship (ever) or anything like that.
And that is because every time I start getting close I just kind of freak out.
It is scary.
I mean, what if it actually turns in to something? And the what - if's continue. Plus I've always felt so strongly about schooling and the importance of that in my life, and I feel awful that spending all this time with this guy has taken a toll on my grades and my focus. But I know that shouldn't be my main concern. I mean the temple should be my goal, and it is. But why do I feel the need to avoid it as long as possible. Like it actually just grips me with fear and all this anxiety. I guess I'm rambling, but I'm just not sure how to shift my priorities. OR make sure that I can handle both.
I have had many friends recently married and that just adds to pressure and then I look at their lives and realize they are so happy and feel guilty that that isn't what I want for years... It just doesn't seem like the right attitude, but I'm not sure what to do..
Help?
- Torn
Dear Torn,
I don't think you need to "do" anything.
Enjoy the moments. Write about them in your journal. Pray often that the Spirit will guide you and that you'll be able to understand what the Lord's will is.
And live life.
In other words: get over it.
Look, life is about change and adaptation. Regardless of what anyone's plans are, things change.
Very few people, at any age, would have been able to guess five years ago what their life would be like today, and no one can predict all of the things that will happen in the next five years. Think about it. Where were you five years ago? Could you have known all that you know now?
Well, guess what? The next five years are going to be just as eventful.
You'll be fine.
Trust in God.
Obey the commandments.
Repent.
Go to Church.
Read your scriptures.
And breathe.
Like Ferris says: "life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while . . . you could miss it".
- Bro Jo