Tuesday, March 17, 2009

Dating Rules Challenged

Dear Bro Jo,

I disagree with your advice about Group Dating until boys are home from their mission. I'm now in my 30's and have dated a lot of LDS guys that, even though they're older, just don't seem to have a clue about how to act when they're alone with a woman. I think the Church has made a mistake teaching generations of Young Men to be afraid of Young Women and that has lead to an epidemic of Young Single Adults (and now Single Adults over 30) who either don't date or don't know how to date.

I think you should revise your "Teen Dating Rules" to included One-on-One Dating for Young Men once they turn 17.

- Over it All


Dear Over,

I'd like to hear more from you. You clearly have had some unpleasant experiences, and I'll bet you've spent time with more than one man that needs to become a regular Dear Bro Jo subscriber! (it's free, by the way)

I understand your frustrations, and the many discussions I've had with Latter-Day Saints (and non-Church members) just like you are a large part of why I started this column.

I don't think the guys you're talking about (dare we call them "Losers"???) Group Dated much, if at all, as Teens; that's the typical pattern:

  • Dodge Church Dances

  • Don't Date (Group or Otherwise) as Teens

  • Come Home from an Honorable Mission

  • Feel Totally Socially Awkward Around Women

  • Play Lots of Video Games with Friends

  • Have Girls Hang Out at Apartment watching said Video Games, Desperately Hoping You'll Get a Clue

  • Girls Wise Up and Leave (we hope)

  • Spiral Into Depression

  • Never Get Married - Consider Inactivity (as if that's going to help, which of course, it won't)

So the problem isn't that these boys didn't Single Date, it's that they never Group Dated, Never Danced, and now have too far to go to catch up (or so they think - the pattern is breakable!) And, YES, you're absolutely right, we the Parents and Well-meaning-but-Phenomenally-Wrong Church Leaders are to blame.

We came out of the Free Love 60's and 70's into the Sexualized 80's and saw the Prosti-Tots grow into the Sexually Aggressive Girls of the 90's and 2000's and freaked out that our boys would find themselves unworthy to go on Missions.

We were right to be worried, but our response was wrong.

We forgot that the Endowment is only the first 95% of the Temple Ceremony, and Totally Ignored the last 5%, the ever crucial Sealing as Husband and Wife for All Eternity. Now the pendulum has swung too far and people like me are desperately trying to get it a little closer to center.

That said, my Teen Dating Rules stand as is. There's no need for One-on-One dating in High School. The function of One-on-One is to establish a courtship, and High School is too early. Your heart is in the right place, but you're over-correcting the problem.

I encourage you to write more; I'd love to hear from you.

You may also want to suggest to your next few dates that they read this column (especially some of the back-articles for Young Single Adults) before they pick you up.

In fact, you may want to read some of the articles together On Your Date - that'll fix things for sure!


- Bro Jo

2 comments:

  1. "I don't think the guys you're talking about (dare we call them "Losers"???) Group Dated much, if at all, as Teens; that's the typical pattern:

    Dodge Church Dances

    Don't Date (Group or Otherwise) as Teens

    Come Home from an Honorable Mission

    Feel Totally Socially Awkward Around Women

    Play Lots of Video Games with Friends

    Have Girls Hang Out at Apartment watching said Video Games, Desperately Hoping You'll Get a Clue

    Girls Wise Up and Leave (we hope)

    Spiral Into Depression

    Never Get Married - Consider Inactivity (as if that's going to help, which of course, it won't)"

    In the world of argumentative fallacy, this is called a "slippery slope". To go from avoiding church dances and group dating to spiraling into depression and considering inactivity is just stretching. Maybe some young men will follow this path, but for you to term it a "typical pattern" is to put a gross generalization on all men who didn't date young. Not only is it offensive to some who fall into the group you apply this to, the pattern is absolutely incorrect for many, many men who did not date as teenagers.

    I generally think the advice you give is great, and I do agree that young men and women need to get out and date. I however do NOT agree with the idea of you putting hasty and crude generalizations on people.


    Furthermore, maybe our asker should evaluate herself as well as the men she is dating. As a writer, I like to spend time observing people to help me with character and plot ideas. Often times I observe my friends and their interactions. Almost without fail when I have a friend comment on "weird" behavior of a man they were interacting with, I had noticed the SAME behavior from them. It is hard for guys to be less awkward around girls if the girls are awkward.

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  2. Rae -

    Thanks for the comments! it's "OK" if we don't agree on everything, and I certainly don't expect us to, and, if I may, you're mixing terms. The pattern I'm suggesting is a Slippery Slope if it is indeed correct; if that's true, then it can't be a fallacy. And for many LDS guys my premiss is not only not a stretch, it's sadly true. Not all, but many.

    My generalizations are not hasty, crude maybe (and hopefully taken with a sense of humor), but not hasty. I find that people generally only disagree if I've touched a raw nerve.

    I do agree that many of us, letter writers included, can benefit from some further self-evaluation - especially me!

    Thanks for Reading AND Writing!

    - Bro Jo

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