Dear Bro Jo,
I have a question about how much a couple needs to agree on in terms of money, before they get married. I’ll explain the situation a little bit.
My fiancé grew up in a home where money was always a little bit tight, both his parents (divorced) had a bit of debt and were not in any position to help him pay for school. He has had to pay for his school all threw loans and he has slightly looser guidelines when it comes to debt.
I grew up in a home where there was always sufficient money to pay for whatever we needed.
My father has always been very strict when it comes to debt, and hated even paying a mortgage. He would pay cash for all of our cars and expenses, and would try to pay houses off in a very short amount of time.
Because of his saving and planning he was able to give each of us a college account that paid for all of our expenses while away at school, therefore I have no debt.
Because I grew up in this situation, and it has worked out nicely for me, its hard for me to see any other perspective.
I know that we both have the same end financial goals.
We want to only go into debt for schooling, and then a house later in life, and try to get his loans paid off as soon as possible.
However, he is a little bit more lax about it than I am, and seems reluctant to work a lot during school when he can just get grants and subsidized loans to pay for things. Its hard for me to understand this.
I would rather us both work as much as we can so that we don't have to take out many more loans at all.
I think the biggest reason I'm concerned is because I know money is a hot topic for divorce, and I don't want these little disagreements to turn into something bigger later in our lives.
I know this is a long explanation, but what would your advice be?
Do you see this as becoming a big problem later?
What’s is the best way to find a middle ground?
Thanks!
- Worried About Money
Dear Worried,
You're right: couples fight about money more than anything else, and it's more likely to lead to divorce than infidelity. (Of course that's not good, either.)
My feeling is that when it comes to money, the person who is against going in to debt or buying things you don't need always wins, and I think acceptance of that principle is the only acceptable middle ground.
Our monthly income is significantly more now than when Sister Jo and I first got married, but we still discuss every purchase that's off budget (yes, you absolutely must have a budget that you both discuss and agree upon) or over a certain amount.
Now, that said, at this point in our lives both she and I have a small budget that we can each spend without consulting the other. We call that "my money / your money". But it took us a long time to have enough money where we could afford that luxury. (And it's not very much money, by the way.)
Lack of discipline when it comes to unnecessary spending is a huge danger.
And so is too much control.
I don’t mean for anyone to go overboard with the “I say you can’t buy that” veto.
Again, understanding and communication is required.
When Sister Jo and I were first married we had agreed that I would be the one balancing the check book. (I think it’s best if you do it together, but that can be very unrealistic. And, FYI, that duty now, and for quite a while, has been Sister Jo’s.)
I remember one very educational incident where we decided that each of us needed cash for new socks for me and nylons for her. I grabbed $10 out of the cash pool and gave her the same.
I was excited about the treat I’d buy myself after I bought a 10-pack of white socks for $6; she looked at me like “what the heck am I supposed to get with this inadequate amount of money?!?”
That was a huge lesson in “what’s fair”.
Marriage, I’ve learned, needs to follow the Law of Consecration. Everything goes into one big mixing pot, and to each partner their needs. While in a community it often breeds resentment, laziness and jealousy, in a marriage it’s crucial.
And it requires Trust (which includes honesty), Communication (which includes prayer), Sacrifice (which includes selflessness), and Love (which includes the physical stuff). (Those are the Four Qualities of a Great Marriage, should you want to quote me.)
I think it's great that his parents required him to pay for school, and I think that your parents should have required you to as well. You have a great work ethic (that I think your fiance needs to learn from) but it's not as if you've had to struggle for what you have or earn what you need.
But I think your dad is absolutely right about avoiding debt and I'm concerned about your fiancé accepting debt instead of working. (There are only three things on my "Daughter Please Make Sure Your Husband Has These Qualities list, and "working hard at whatever he does" is on there.)
As the List of Qualities suggests, Communication is very important, and that's especially true when it comes to money. You need not always agree, but each should have a safe harbor to discuss their feelings and concerns (in "Safe Harbor" conversation we never use the word "you", as in "you did this"; instead we only say "I", as in "I feel this way when this happens").
Never go to bed mad.
Always pray as a couple before one of you goes to sleep.
And always pay your tithing.
Avoid debt.
Budget for weekly dates even after you're married.
Talk all the time.
That's my marriage / money advice.
Congratulations!
- Bro Jo
5 comments:
Something you've said really rubs me the wrong way. Just because he didn't work in school doesn't mean he's lazy or unmotivated. When I was doing my undergrad, I had to choose loans over working. If I were to work, I still would have had to take loans. My parents have 7 kids, and even though my dad does alright as a truck driver, 7 kids makes that money very thin.
Anyways, I tried working while in school my freshman year and I almost didn't make it. I was spread too thin between studying, my job, volunteer, and research. I knew that if I continued, I wouldn't have a good enough GPA to get me into med school and I would have wasted my undergrad. I stopped working and lived off of loans. That let me focus on my grades and improving my application to med school. And once I started Med school (at Alabama) I had no time whatsoever to work. You don't get a second chance at med school. All in all, I have close to 300K in student loans. I'm in my second year of my 6-year residency. Once I'm out, I'll be making in the range of 400-450k after a few years.
Her Fiance might not be going to med school, but he may have realised, like I did, that those 30 hours a week could be better spent working towards improving your chances at an actual career instead of working at a dead-end job just to avoid manageable debt.
It's always a huge balancing act, and we have to let God into it, but I like what BroJo said about consecration. That's about the best I've ever heard that part said.
Debt isn't necessarily a bad thing if it's managed well. While this girl's father obviously didn't have to accumulate debt, sometime you just have to. I think she needs to be appreciative of the fact that he fiance at least has a credit history. It can cause problems if you need a loan or any sorts and you don't have credit history; it's actually just as bad as bad history.
A few tips from someone who's been all across the board with this. I went from a credit score of 810, to a 395 in two years, and now it's going back up.
1) People don't give you loans out of charity; they do it to make money. They make that money off fees and interest. While It may seem wise to pay off loans ASAP, if you pay them off too early it will actually count against you in your credit report. Loan companies will see that you paid early, and will either not give you the loan or charge a higher fee so that they can guarantee their profit.
2) Different kinds of debt affect you credit score in different ways. Learn this.
3) Check your credit score every year, and dispute anything that shouldn't be there or isn't accurate.
4) Anything you pay for after the service depends on credit. Phones, utilities, loans, credit cards, even employers check your credit report, and any of them can use that information against you.
5) Always get everything in writing when dealing with collection agencies, and always learn the laws of your state regarding collections. 99% of all collection agencies will lie and do illegal things against you. document everything, and never talk to them over the phone; only communicate using US mail, certified with return receipt.
I'm going back to school to change careers, and am with many students who are living on student loans. They live in beautiful apartments, and often go out to lunch and the movies, I bring sandwiches from home and go for walks in the park. There are appropriate ways and inappropriate ways to use student loans. Those who work hard are often able to get scholarships toward tuition. Putting that together with working two jobs in the summers and you won't even need a loan. When you are young you don't realize how quickly a paycheck is used up on grownups expenses like health insurance, a broken furnace an a month's worth of diapers. Once you have a student loan it can suck many years of your disposable income from you. Each person must prayerfully decide how to finance their education, but for me taking a few months off school to work and having no debt is much preferable to having a student loan with a great credit rating. I have no debt at all and my credit rating is just fine.
I know more than a few college students who work so much that their grades suffer and they rarely get to see their spouse. For minimum wage, that does more harm than good. I also know people who went to schools that were far more expensive than they needed or goofed around on outrageous loans.
I think that there IS a middle ground here that you may not be seeing. She doesn't seem to understand that sometimes it's not worth it to work during school. With clinical rotations, there's no way my husband could have worked while getting his paramedic certificate, so I worked and went to school while he focused on school. Then, I quit my job to work on my Master's degree and he worked full-time.
Sometimes, students loans are a better choice than starving to get by and never seeing each other. Sometimes, it's a better choice than working hours at a minimum wage job that won't even make a dent in your tuition. If he is currently studying in a difficult field where he knows he'll earn sufficiently when he gets out, focusing on his studies may be a much smarter decision.
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