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Wednesday, April 25, 2012

What If She Refuses to Kiss Until You've Proposed?

[Readers - I got the comment below on a column I posted titled "It's Okay Not to Kiss". That letter was a response to a young teenager who still feels that "kissing is gross". The comment is from a YSA Sister in her 20's who thinks all kissing should be saved until post-engagement, and that my friends is a different situation. Yes, we want to be morally clean, but swearing off all PDA until we're looking across the alter at each other is, in my opinion, a Huge Mistake, and an attitude that I believe is part of why too many of us are Over 30 Never Marrieds.

Just One Old Guy's Take,

- Bro Jo]

Anonymous said...

Ok, Bro Jo, what what us "older gals" (20 here!) who don't kiss for another reason: I haven't kissed anyone because I want to save that for the person I get engaged to. I'm sure I'll go through at least one or two guys that I'll hold hands and cuddle with before he pops the question, but I just feel like kisses aren't something you should hand out like the candy.

I know not everyone agrees with that, but that's my take on the whole kissing issue.

- Annon

Dear Annon,

I'm one of the people who doesn't agree with that.

There's a huge gulf between "handing out kisses like candy" and "not kissing anyone you're not formally engaged to first".

Ponder this: if a guy wrote me a letter saying "Bro Jo, I love this girl and I'm thinking about marrying her, but she refuses to kiss me until after I propose, what should I do?" I'd tell him to get out and run away from her as fast as he can.


Because 1) she's too uptight, and 2) it sounds like she's manipulative and selfish.

Heck, if I was a Single Guy over 21 I wouldn't keep dating a girl that I hadn't kissed by the fourth date. Seriously.

I'm not saying that you should play tonsil hockey with every boy you date, but the notion that the only guy you ever kiss is the one that will be your husband is . . . (this is said with love) naive, ill-advised, and a little dangerous.

You shouldn't do anything that makes you uncomfortable or calls your Temple Worthiness into question, but kissing is just kissing.

I think you need to re-evaluate your policy and consider that it may just be your excuse for why you're still a member of the VLC at way too old an age.

As I've said, "cuddling" is a Way Bigger Danger than a good-night smooch.

Much Bigger.

Trust me; as the father of 7 kids I can tell you from experience that cuddling is much closer to procreation than kissing is.

Kissing is a simple sign of affection; if you're not kissing, how can either of you think there's enough love or attraction there to justify a marriage proposal?

- Bro Jo


Amberlie said...

I can see what you're saying, Bro Jo, but how do you feel about kissing on the cheek/forehead, but waiting to kiss lip-to-lip until engagement? Or do you see a difference in kisses based on their location?

Dave Johnston said...

"Location" absolutely makes a difference; but I still feel that refusing to "kiss on the lips until engagement" is ridiculous in most cultures.

In fact, I think pre-engagement there should be at least a few instances of passionate kissing. I can't imagine any guy proposing to a girl he hadn't passionately kissed a few times.

Heck, a kiss on the forehead and the cheek is what you give your grandma and your children . . . don't you think that you should feel a little more passionate towards someone you're going to marry???

- Bro Jo

PS: For what it's worth, I agree with Ellen on this one (see the Facebook page).

Dave Johnston said...

HOWEVER, and let me stress this, that doesn't mean that you should kiss any old person NOR does it mean that you should kiss before you're ready.

- Bro Jo

DennisT said...

Bro. Jo,
I think you've unintentionally overstepped it a bit in your wording here. The For the Strength of Youth pamphlet specifically says "Before marriage, do not participate in passionate kissing".

The difficulty is the flexibility of our language. "Passionate" can mean different things to different people. Church leaders agonize over what language to use because they don't want to be misunderstood whether it be to on the up tight side, or on the loose side. But some people are determined to misunderstand regardless.

I agree that kissing isn't something that should wait for engagement, but young people are foolish if they get physical too fast. Even engaged couples dance with the devil if they put themselves in situations where there aren't safeguards in place to curb "passion". I'm happy to say that my wife and I followed the guidelines in the for strength of youth and were even a little more careful up until our wedding. Erring on the safe side is okay, and it sure paid off for me.

Dave Johnston said...

"Bro Jo's Guide to Kissing"

- Bro Jo

Amberlie said...

Ok. I see what you're saying, and I'm not saying that I think you're wrong. I really enjoy your opinions and agree with most of them, and I think it's great getting differing opinions than my own so I can figure out how I feel about certain situations.

So my Book of Mormon teacher cautioned us against passionate kissing because 1. Your hands tend to start wandering, and 2. The thoughts that run through your head usually aren't very clean/pure. He said, "If you two can keep your thoughts clean and your hands from wandering to places they shouldn't, go for it!" But from his tone of voice, it was obvious he didn't think it was likely. What do you think about this?

Also, could you please clarify as to what your definition of "passionate" is?

Thanks Bro Jo :)

Anonymous said...

Bro Jo, you use the acronym VLC in this post. What does that stand for?

Laura said...

VLC means Virgin Lips Club.

And I would like to say that yes, you can passionately kiss without wandering hands or inappropriate thoughts. It's a long and very personal story, but I know from experience that it does happen.

Anonymous said...

I don't totally agree with what you've said here, then again I AM really young. I've almost always thought that a first kiss is something really special and I've heard that it's even more special when shared with your eternal companion. I guess I shouldn't really worry about this until after I graduate anyway.

Dave Johnston said...

You're right: first kisses ARE special, but they're not everything.

And, like I said, as I guy I'd never propose to a girl I hadn't kissed.

But you're right: for now, don't worry about it!

Great comment!

- Bro Jo