Hey Bro Jo,
Typing from Australia here . . .
Have a few things to ask.
Over there in America do you do things differently at dances? Over here after you dance with a guy they say thank you for the dance and will, if they are shy (or uninterested :P) they will give you a hand shake. If they are really shy they will sort of wander away awkwardly and finally, if they have courage (or I suppose like you) they will give you a hug.
In my stake, all the girls (well, almost all) wear skirts or dresses. Is it the same there?
Here, leaders encourage girls to ask guys to dance because guys almost never ask girls to dance. which I find silly because you sit there waiting for this one guy to ask you to dance than some girl asks him to dance :P
Sort of less regarding the "is it the same thing" do guys actually find it that intimidating to ask a girl to dance when there in a group of friends? I can’t really complain because my group gets pretty tight but still....
It seems so awfully weird to do the things you say about dating here at least in this part of Australia. Everyone sort of knows everyone and who's interests are whose and you generally wouldn't just go out on a date with a random person just to see what there like. It’s more like here, if you like them; you ask them out on a group date with another couple.
I guess you could say we are a rather laid back group here in the great land of Aus. all the guys I know (and I know all the guys in my stake) that have had pretty long term relationships and haven't followed the dating rules totally have gone on their missions and a lot of them I’ve known are now happily married.
That’s about it. I guess you could say I’m:
- Lost in translation
Dear Translator,
Great questions! I'm glad you wrote.
I don't know if I can speak for everywhere in the US, but I've chaperoned a few dances, in and out of my own stake, and here's what I've seen.
Most kids don't dance with a specific partner unless the song is a) slow, b) a Big Band, swing-type song. There's some Line Dancing, and some songs where all of them seem to be inspired to take the floor and dance in a group. When I was a kid, many, many moons ago, everyone danced with a partner, regardless of the speed or style of the song.
Often here, particularly at the end of dancing to a Slow Song, when the song is over, the kids seem to just . . . drift apart. Sometimes they'll exchange thank yous or other pleasantries, but mostly they just ways, turning their backs to each other and then wandering off the "dance floor area" searching for their friends or something else, trying desperately to look like they have somewhere to go, and that's why they've stopped dancing with that person.
It's a bit awkward.
And it happens either because of a lack of Dancing Experience and Etiquette Education or because the Dancing Moment itself was awkward.
The latter I understand.
What is a couple supposed to do when they're dancing? Unless you're In Love, or Mutually in Like, you're can't just stand there and stare at each other . . . right? So you look off into the distance, scanning the dance floor, make faces at your friends . . .
What you're Supposed to Do is converse; get to know the person better. Many dancers think that's really difficult with someone you already know, someone you've gone to Church with since Sunbeams, but I disagree. With those you know well, you simply ask more topical or deeper questions.
For ideas about what to talk about, check out "Bro Jo's LIST OF STUFF YOUNG GUYS CAN ASK GIRLS ABOUT WHEN DANCING"; it's written for young guys, but works well for old guys and girls of all ages, too.
The other element that can make the whole dancing thing awkward is the Romantic Component. Even if you're not particularly interested in the person you're dancing with IN THAT WAY, you are standing relatively close to each other, probably touching, and typically in a darkened room . . . You're at a very self conscious age anyway, now you're mind is easily drifting to concerns over how your breath and body smell, and whether or not you look like a dork . . .
So, the answer to the unasked question "What do you do with her after the song is over and you've finished dancing with her?" is that you escort her Back Where You Got Her From. Take her hand and fold it over your arm, and walk her back. Thank her for the dance, smile, and that's it. Keep it simple.
If you're the girl and he starts to drift away, help out every girl he'll ever dance with in the future by teaching him what to do: put your hand around his arm and lead him back to where you came from. Thank him for the dance, and send him on his way. Keep it simple.
I think all Church Dances should be in Church Attire, which, to me, means skirts or dresses for girls, but here we play A LOT of fast music, and it's awkward to get your Church Clothes all sweaty, so most of our dances are one step above casual. Jeans and T-shirts are not allowed, and other modesty standards are supposed to be enforced, but frankly I don't think we do a real good job with that. My personal opinion is that dances should be much slower and semi-formal, but I think I'm pretty alone in that opinion. (Although I will say that the number one complain I hear from Young Women about Church Dances is that the boys are sweaty and smelly . . . the number two complaint I hear is about the music, but I'm not certain that's an endorsement of more slow songs.)
Here leaders push the guys to ask the girls to dance. Many of our guys are socially awkward, some even running from the room if a leader Strongly Encourages them to ask a girl to dance - now THAT'S what I call shy!
As a father and leader I tell my sons, the guys I've taught in seminary, and all guys from my ward that I believe they have a Priesthood Responsibility to Dance WITH A GIRL every slow song. Whom they dance with (and whether or not they listen to me) is of course up to them, but I look at it this way: no girl (really) wants to stand on the sidelines while other girls are asked to dance, and girls by Divine Nature as Daughters of Our Heavenly Father deserve to be put on a pedestal - we as Priesthood Holders have a God Given Responsibility to Respect and Honor Women (and girls), and therefore should never allow a girl to sit sadly on the sideline if we can do something about it.
"Man Up!" I say. Put your feelings of shyness aside and do the right thing: go ask her to dance!
(Brethren, the key is to always be scanning the room a couple songs ahead for a girl or two you'd like to dance with. You never know when the next slow song is coming up; Be Prepared, Boy Scout! And act quickly!)
So, Trans, to that end I respectfully disagree with girls asking guys to dance with them (unless it's an announced special dance or special girl-ask guy song). I think it's a mistake to let the guys off the hook, and sets a bad tone for dating, which, frankly, is what Church Dances are supposed to be preparatory for. (And you can forward this to your leaders if you want, and tell them I said so.)
Yes, guys find it intimidating to ask a girl to dance in front of her friends, but that goes away with experience. I recommend that guys approach a group of girls As A Group. Take a Wingman or two (or three, or four) and ask the whole bunch to dance.
And, to be fair, sisters you need to say yes. Unless the guy is a stalker, or scary (sincerely scary, you know what I mean), if he asks, you should dance with him. At least once.
The comments you made about what I recommend about dating being weird in Australia are comments I hear from around the world, including the States. How people act and react around each other is pretty much universal. The Group Dating you mention is Exactly what I endorse. "Bro Jo's DATING RULES for TEENS" exists because so many teens struggle with where to start, how to behave, and developing a base plan for putting together a Good Casual Group Date.
I don't recommend pre-mission, pre-adult Boyfriends and Girlfriends because those type of commitments bring a lot of stress to otherwise very difficult years, plus it limits opportunities to get to know lots of other people and introduces a lot of worthiness risk. Do some people have High School relationships and still stay worthy and do the right things? Of course they do! But some people can fly an airplane, too, that doesn't mean just anyone and everyone should fly before they're mature enough and have taken a few lessons.
I'll bet you're not as "lost" as you thought . . .
Thanks for Reading and Writing In,
- Bro Jo
PS - A side question back to you: How many of the Return Missionaries in your area come back and marry the Girlfriend from before they left?
Dear Bro Jo,
Haha thanks for all of that. I’m a girl ;D
makes a lot more sense now. Glad the two worlds aren't so different!
We don’t have any big band or anything like that. Just popular songs of the music culture at the time (modest of course) we only dance to slow songs together.
I'd say that slim to none of them have ended up together. haha so I guess there was no point in being in a relationship for so long if they weren't going to end up together any way.
- Lost in translation
Dear Trans,
I know you're a girl!
Cultures certainly have an impact on our lives, but generally people are the same just about anywhere you go.
Isn't that interesting . . . about the Boyfriends and Girlfriends not ending up together . . .
Keep dancing!
(And check out the new Facebook Discussion about Church Dances that you helped inspire! CLICK HERE)
- Bro Jo
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