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Monday, July 2, 2012

A Conversation About Serious Single Dating

Dear Bro Jo,

I was reading your blog about how girls can suggest that a guy take them on a date. I would really like to do this, but don't know how to proceed.

I want to suggest to a quiet shy guy to take me on a date, but how do I do this? I've done this once with another guy because by sheer luck the guy brought up Tron and I said "I want to see it, but I was reeeeeeally hoping some guy would ask me on a date to see it." But I want to suggest a first date that isn't a movie for this guy. What should I do?

- R

Dear R,

The same basic principles apply. Check out:  "Bro Jo's "HOW a GIRL CAN GET a GUY to ASK HER on a DATE".

- Bro Jo

Dear Bro Jo,

But what if he's really shy and easily intimidated by too much boldness such as saying "When are you going to ask me out?"?

A lot of those techniques are very bold and demanding and I'm afraid the guy might think I'm high maintenance for using them and I'll scare him away.

To the question: "So, what does a girl have to do to let you know she wants to ask you out on a date?" I could easily see him shyly going "I don't know..." to which I have no idea how to reply.

- R

Dear R,

The truth is that a lot of LDS guys need some Serious Single Dating education. I can only get to so many; you sisters are going to have to help out.

Be bold.

When he says "I don't know" you reply:

"Well, let me help you with that. When a girl, a great girl that you should date, like me, touches you on the arm like THIS when she's talking to you, it means she's interested in you. It's called flirting. You should take that as a hint and ask her out."

If he asks "how?", you respond "you say 'hey, would you like to go to dinner with me' and I ask 'is this a date' and you say 'why yes, it is' and I say ' great!' and then you take me out to dinner".


She who hesitates is dateless.

- Bro Jo

Dear Bro Jo,

I'll take your advice on that, although I'm often afraid of being too bold and scaring off guys only because I am very flirtatious and have an overwhelming personality.

I assume that since I asked him to go on the group date with me, he knows that I'm interested and if he doesn't ask me on a date knowing this, then he is not interested.

- R

Dear R -

The problem is that you're being bold . . . wrongly.

And you're assuming . . . incorrectly.

Asking a guy on a date says "I'm desperate (or easy) and think you're unmanly" (1. What are you doing going on "group dates" at your age, anyway? and 2. This is where I get "you're too old fashioned" comments, but the thing is that at our core guys and girls have been the same since the Garden, so it's not "old fashioned", it's historical); teaching a guy how to ask you on dates says "I'm interested and worth the effort". The Church is full of guys who are "interested" but don't know what to do about it, and I'm pretty sure you've got yourself one of those.

So . . . are you going to keep making excuses and trying to debate me on this, or are you going to make a move?

The RIGHT KIND of move.

- Bro Jo

Dear Bro Jo,

If he ever decides to contact me again, I will definitely make a move.

I would like to put a word in for guys, though, and say that a lot of them actually like being asked out (it's not necessarily a good thing, seeing as it makes them lazier, but most of my guy friends are like this - whether they are shy or assertive).

Usually I do just as you say to do and suggest they ask me out. However, I only know how to do this by means of sneakily slipping it into a casual conversation. When my roommates come up with a group date and I have limited communication with the guy (who I never see in person, doesn't like texting/IM conversations, and doesn't like the phone either) and limited time, I usually just ask a guy directly.

However, I'm trying to break this habit.

And I absolutely promise that if he asks me to hang out, I will tell him to ask me on a date instead :)

- R

Dear R,

Good for you!

GUYS liked to be asked out. MEN do not.

Men go to work, set goals and get married. Men romance women, and honor and cherish them.

Guys sit around all day. Guys are too pathetic to get dates on their own. Guys like easy women who value themselves so little that they require no effort.

Men talk.

Guys text.

No need for you sisters to be sneaky. Come right out and say "hey, buddy, be a man and have the courage ask me out".

And tell your roommates for me to stop enabling the pathetic losers. If they don't stop doing all the work, the best they can hope for is a bunch of lazy Guys.

- Bro Jo

PS: If he's TOO shy, and just won't take a hint (or act on a hint) then find someone else. Too many great guys out there for you to waste your time with a Dating Couch Potato.

Dear Bro Jo,

Hm, good point. Thank you for your advice. And I'll make sure to tell the roommates. Although to be perfectly honest, they do come up with some fantastically fun group dates :) I will miss those...

- R

Dear R,

Dating should still be lots of fun!

Turn those fun Group Dates into Ward Activities.

Drawing a clear line between Serious Single Dating and the Ward Social will help these guys to learn how to date properly at their age, help you be seen as someone worth dating, worth the extra effort.

- Bro Jo


Christopher Cunningham said...

Just because I'm endlessly difficult let me say that occasionally there is a good cause for a woman to ask a man out on a date. For example, when I moved into a new ward I met a woman who was more rude to me than anyone I had previously met. I had no interest in her. After several months her veneer began to drop, but first impressions are tough to break and I had zero interest. So she asked me out. I agreed, and changed my mind entirely. I asked her out again.

Dave Johnston said...

Just because something works, that doesn't mean it's the best idea.

After all, in your case she could have apologized, been sweet, and asked you to ask her out.

Being the good guy you are, you'd no doubt have made the right decision.

- Bro Jo

Miranda said...

What's the difference between asking a guy out and asking him to ask you out? I think it's quite rude to say that all women who ask men on dates are desperate or "easy." People have different personalities, and just because you personally would not like to be asked out doesn't mean you can generalize that to the entire population.

Dave Johnston said...

@ Miranda -

There's a WORLD of difference.

Asking a guy out is allowing him to be lazy.

Telling him he should ask you out is telling him that you're worth making an effort for.

This is not an issue of me not wanting to be chased by a woman (married, remember?), nor is it an issue of me labeling women one thing or another, but rather me educating you sisters on what guys think about women (yes, in general terms) when girls do the asking.

And you should know, I generalize LOTS of stuff - it's required by the nature of what I do. In order for me to be specific and personal I'd have to know people way better than an a couple emails can provide. (It's a free entertainment column, nothing more than my opinions, however educated they may be, I'm not a paid psychologist.)

And, really, if you're going to pick up on anything I wrote as "rude", don't you think " tell your roommates for me to stop enabling the pathetic losers" is far more invective?


- Bro Jo

Miranda said...

I'm still taking issue with calling women who ask men out "easy" and saying that they don't value themselves. What really makes women not value themselves is the perspective that they cannot act, only be acted upon. Advice telling women to wait for the men to ask them out is perpetuating that view.

Dave Johnston said...

@ Miranda -

You need to take that chip off your shoulder so you can see more clearly.

What I've said is that Guys see Women who do the asking as "desperate and easy", and let's face it . . . it's true.

I've also said that women typically hold all the cards and all of the power; that's hardly the point of view of being "acted upon".

And I've never said that women should wait around helplessly.

You can try to twist and spin any of my words you want, but the record stands, and I stand by it.

No one agrees with everything I write, and that's a very good thing as far as I'm concerned; but I don't write things I don't think are true.

And that includes this: you can ask out all the guys you want, but you'll be making a mistake AND (this is the most important lesson for you to learn) when you do that you'll be giving away much of the power that you should have, that I advocate you deserve and should use, and that you seem to value so highly.

To be feminine is to embrace the feminine, not to try and make it masculine.

- Bro Jo

Cali Gal said...

"To be feminine is to embrace the feminine, not to try and make it masculine."

I think I've found my new favorite quote!