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Friday, May 24, 2013

The 90-10 Rule - The Who Gets Asked Out One - A Guy's Take

[ Readers - 

The following was a comment left on a letter I posted on March 29th, 2013, "The 90-10 Rule - The Who Gets Asked Out One".  I've chosen to answer it as a separate post, here.  I look forward to your comments!

Dear Bro Jo,

I have also heard this at BYU that 10% of the girls get 90% of the dates. 

Girls in the 90th percentile are upset about never really getting asked out. When those girls express their concern to their bishops, bishops go to elder's quorum and tell the guys that they're not dating and that they should ask girls out. 

That does get a lot of guys dating again. 

However, they go and ask out the 10th percentile of girls, leading to more dates for them, more competition between guys, and still few dates for the large group of date-barren girls. 

Guys then get blamed because there's such a large group of girls that doesn't get taken out, they're told they're not dating enough, they start dating again but only with the cuter girls...the cycle continues. 

 What do you think can be done to help alleviate this problem? 

Guys usually don't know ahead of time whether or not a girl gets asked out much, but either way they take out the girls they're attracted to. 

Are the guys to blame for there being so many girls that don't go out on dates? 

Is there more that girls should do besides wait to be asked out and blame their shortcomings on guys? 

Is it really a guy's responsibility to spend time and money on someone that he's just not attracted to when he can spend that time and money putting himself out there for a girl he really IS attracted to? (ESPECIALLY because someone else might beat him to it if he's out with another girl). 

As a YSA guy, I feel that guys are only responsible for looking for a girl to marry. If they happen to go for the same girl that others do, then they go for the same girl, but they want to find a wife. 

Girls are awesome, they really are. 

However, guys will go for who they're attracted to and that's it. 

I personally hate competing for girls, but I have to do it anyway if I want to go for girls I'm attracted to. 

Just as a company shouldn't blame customers for not buying their products/services, girls shouldn't blame guys for not asking them out. 


- Anon

Dear Anon, 

Well . . . I think one thing that needs to happen is that we need to encourage our youth to do much more Casual Group Dating

There’s nothing wrong with focusing on those whom you find attractive, but I think that if more of you went on a lot of dates when you were younger, and those dates weren't about getting into a committed relationship, then you might discover that there’s much more to attraction than just a way someone looks.  (And I think your dating skills would be where you need them to be as adults.)

The second thing I think we should do is have a better understanding that as Young Single Adults a First Date (or a Second, or a Third) is NOT a big deal. 

Yes, it’s Serious Single Dating, but that doesn't mean that we need to take ourselves or the date too seriously. If we can affect this paradigm shift in our College Dating Culture I think both sexes would find dating less intimidating. 

 If you could ask a girl out without her thinking that you had already determined that she might be “the one”, think of how much more fun it would be! Wouldn't you be more likely to take girls out? More often? And wouldn't you find yourself less likely to limit those girls to the “10 percent”? 

I think you would. 

And I think other guys would, too. 

You said a couple things I don’t entirely believe, by the way: I think all of you in your University Wards have a pretty good idea who’s getting asked out and by whom, and I don’t buy into the whole 90-10 thing. I can accept that it’s a perception, but I think it’s wildly exaggerated. 

As for guys being blamed for girls not going out on dates . . . I say “yes and no”. 

The guys that go out on at least one date a week (that’s my Strong Recommendation for RMs, by the way), whether or not it’s with the same girl, no, they deserve none of the blame. But all the rest of the guys do. 

Our culture supports guys doing the asking, and it’s an aspect I firmly believe in (for reasons I've mentioned many, many times).  

It's kind of like Youth Dances.  The guys that dance every slow dance with a girl deserve none of the blame for some of the girls not getting asked.  The guys that stand around, run from the room, wander the floor afraid to ask a girl to dance . . . you've seen them . . . they deserve blame.  As do their fathers and youth leaders.  The girls that sulk, are unapproachable, flee the gym every time a slow song comes on, are moody and mean . . . they deserve blame, too.

(As I've said, Youth Dances are Dating Prep.)

Consider: if all of you were dating as much as I think you should, wouldn't most of the girls in your Ward have a date every weekend? 

The problem is that you've (both you as an individual and the collective “you”) incorrectly assessed that only 10% of the girls are worth marrying. 

That’s, to be candid . . . stupid. 

So what are you doing? 

Allowing your buddy to date the “one hot girl” (again, a totally incorrect assessment) in your ward and then, after he’s made out with her and decided that she’s not the one, either you or one of the other guys will get a shot at her? 

Somehow I’m not convinced that’s the case. 

In the same way that I told the original letter writer not to sit around and wait, that advice applies to you as well. I do agree that some girls need to do less whining and more putting themselves out there. 

And I think many of you could do much more to help yourself attract the opposite sex. 

Frankly, and I’ll be very candid here, I’m disappointed how many of you young people have horrible habits when it comes to your own health and well-being  

Stop eating so much junk food! 

More water, less soda! 

Put down the video game controller and get some exercise! 

Whine less and serve others more! 

Take a shower, brush your teeth, dress nicely, and smell good! 

And I don’t think many of y’all are being as competitive as you think you are. Not even close. 

As the Great One said: “You miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take”. 

Let me give you one more thing to mull over that might help you a great deal: your Company and Customers analogy is a very good one, and I agree with it . . . but you need to stop thinking of yourself as the customer and realize that you’re the company. 


Anonymous said...

My husband literally went on hundreds of first dates before we met. His philosophy was that by going on a casual first date (our first date was getting ice cream at DQ - simple as that), you don't commit much time, but will get to know the girl on a personal basis. It doesn't have to be the prettiest girl in the ward - maybe just someone you think you might have something in common with. The conversation only has to be as long as your ice cream is big. If you find you have a lot in common, then maybe a second date is in order.

On the flip side, I knew a LOT of girls at my time at BYU-Idaho who sat in their apartments, hung out with roommates, didn't branch out at church, and didn't attend any Ward or school activities... and then complained about not dating!! If you never talk to any boys, they will never think they might have something in common with you (see above), and never ask you out. It's definitely a two way street; one that starts with (like you said Bro Jo) remembering that dates should be casual, and just because you go on one doesn't mean you're meant to be for time and all Eternity.

Dave Johnston said...


Well said.

- Bro Jo

Mike said...

So I've tried going out with girls I wasn't interested in initially. Sometimes I find that I have fun while I'm with them, but not once has attraction grown where there initially was none. Given that (whether you want it to be or not) asking a person out is an expression of interest, I have concluded that it's dishonest to ask out someone you're not interested in.

Anyway, if a YSA is going to the ward activities, etc., he can easily have a pretty good idea of what a given girl's personality is least enough to know whether her personality is interesting to him or not.

Dave Johnston said...

"Girls become attracted to the man they're in love with; guys fall in love with the girl they're attracted to"

- Bro Jo

Anonymous said...

If a guy is honest in his intentions when asking a girl out, then he wouldn't have to worry so much about the pressure of feeling like he can only ask out the girls he thinks he's interested in at a glance. Honestly, you're not going to get as much information about a girl's personality from YSA activities as you think you're getting.

Anonymous said...

What kind of intentions are you referring to? And what's wrong with only wanting to ask the girls he thinks he's interested in at a glance? Guys don't think that they can only ask out the girls they're "interested in at a glance". What they do think is that they should only ask the girls they're interested in. There are countless opportunities in which you can show the great things about you to guys. It doesn't only have to be in dates. There are many girls out there that guys find attractive before they even go on dates with them, and they're not just the very pretty girls. I'm sure you know some of these girls that get asked out by so many guys; ask them for pointers and learn from them. You don't need a date in order for a guy to be interested in you. Again, guys typically have an interest of some sorts in you before he asks you out. Sometimes it takes weeks of him getting to that point from seeing you and how you are in class/church/elsewhere, but by the time he asks you out there's a chance that he's already interested. Bro Jo is right in the sense that if we were taught more about casual dating when we were younger, then we wouldn't only be asking out the girls we're interested in. At the same time, we need to know that dates aren't the only situation in which someone should become attracted to you. Because if someone doesn't get many dates then she won't have the chance to get guys interested.

Anonymous said...

Now I've attended two of the church schools and there are way more than 10% of girls that are attractive! Unfortunately I can't say that there are that many attractive RMs. If guys spent as much time in the mirror and in the gym as they do chasing their so called 10% then BYU and BYU would be a more beautiful place. You are not all going to end up with the prom queen or the cheerleader so branch out men!

Anonymous said...

^that comment from 8:11pm on June 2, I'm assuming it was a woman...?

Dave Johnston said...

I could see it being left by either.

Clearly frustrations run deep on both sides.

- Bro Jo