Good Dates

Dear Bro Jo,

I have been 16 for almost a month now. I have a good social network, and know many great guys, have good gal friends, and love to hang out with all of them. However, the whole dating thing is confusing and unknown to me!

Eeek!

I have sort of set my dating standards, etc. My problem is: I am friends with all age groups, including those who are 19. I really want to start off dating members in my age group. I have had a crush on a guy from my ward for over a year (and... The whole ward knows it haha), amazing guy, kind, sweet, strong priesthood holder, talented, etc. Problem is, he is too shy and quiet and is not too into girls yet.

And now I also like another 16-year old from my ward (only this guys sister who is one of my friends knows and she approves) who is an athletic, outgoing, social, good priesthood holder and he has much more... Experience (he has already had 2 exclusive girlfriends and is a puppy love kind of guy, but I danced with him at the last tri-stake dance and he said- after he broke up with his 2nd nonmember girlfriend- that he has decided exclusive dating/ HS relationships are over rated, so he is now back to the church suggestions for 16 yr old dating).

BUT THEY WONT ASK ME (and I have hinted... Would it be tacky to ask
them?)!!!

Here are my dilemmas:

#1: What is your opinion on dating within a ward? I mean, you spend
SOO much time with these guys because of seminary, church, mutual, etc. I
would love to date those I know well, makes a date more comfortable.

#2: The people who have asked me out are not the ones I want to date... Yet. Don't get me wrong, they are not bad kids, but they are just not, well I don't know. For example, a 19 year old who is a friend of mine from my old HS just asked me out. I politely said no thanks and explained how I was not comfortable with dating some one that much older than me. Do you think it would be best to date those who are members? (I kind of feel that way - but that's hard due to a low member concentration, my parents are fine either way)

#3: I actually really like the idea of not exclusively dating. At
MINIMUM 1 or 2 guys in between before going out with the same guy again.
However, it is EXTREAMLY difficult in an area where the Mormon concentration
is LOW. Non members have a hard time understanding our dating standards. They tend to label people who go out with a different person every other week as shallow. Now,
I could care less what people with low moral standards who don't know me well think, but still, it is not a good label to have in HS no matter how good a person one may actually be.

#4: I love your basic guideline for teen dating. GREATLY appreciated! As a teenager, we are always trying to come up with fun, inexpensive dates. I think you should make a list of great teen dates. (oh hey, what is your opinion on Movie theater dates? I think they kind of defeat the purpose of a date because you can’t talk, but I think they could be fun once and a while) Oh and also, some good suggestions on what to talk about to keep the date conversations alive and interesting.


PS: at church, in Young women's one day, the bishops 2nd councilor spoke to
us on dating. He told us the rule he set fro his daughters. It was called PAD. Personal Space, Alone, Dark. Never have two of them together, and you will be at less of a risk! :D

Thanks,
a Daughter of God

Dear Little Sister,

I love the PAD concept! So what you’re saying is that a girl can have someone invade their Personal Space, as long as she’s not Alone with him or in the Dark; or She can be in the Dark so long as she’s neither Alone with a Guy or Having her Personal space invaded; or that she can be Alone with a Guy if they’re not in the Dark or Invading each other’s Personal Space; is that right?

(I’m tempted to change the word “Alone” to “Affection” . . . but I digress)

It’s good that you’re hinting, but I’ve got to tell you that many of us guys (Bro Jo included) are quite . . . slow.

A “hint” may just not be direct enough. I’ve written a few columns on how a Girl Can Get a Boy to Ask her Out, and posted some suggestions on the “Dear Bro Jo” Facebook Fan Page. (It’s free, and you can jump right to the now by clicking on this paragraph).

One item from that note that may help you the most is to just Say It: “So, when are you going to ask me out?”

You need to remember that we guys can be terrified that you’ll reject us. A straight-forward invitation will go a long way towards building our confidence.

But don’t get in the habit of asking guys out unless it’s a special event, like a Girl-Ask-Guy Dance. (In my school we still called it “Sadie Hawkins”, after a character in an old Comic Strip. At the High School here in Bozeman they call it TWIRP, which stands for The Woman Is Required to Pay. I think having one or two of these type of events a year is healthy for Young Men and Young Women, but I think the Dating Rules still need to apply).


To address you dilemmas:

#1) I agree: the first place for guys and girls to look for Dates (both the casual ones when you’re 16 and the Serious ones when you’re 22) is within your own ward. Those are the people you know best, and you’re right: a little familiarity can help. I’ve had some teens express concern about the gossip that may happen (or potential hurt feelings) when dates happen within your circle of friends. I think those are legitimate concerns, but easily overcome when dates are frequent, Casual, in Groups, and the we adhere to the concepts of “everyone deserves to go out” and “don’t date the same person until you’ve gone out with 2+ other people”.

#2) Your parents are right: I see no problem dating non-members when you’re Casual Dating Age so long as you stick to the rules, stick to your standards, and don’t go out with guys that scare you or make you uncomfortable. In general I agree with the standard that a girl should go out with any boy that asks, but I do make exceptions. No girl should put herself in a situation where she feels unsafe.

#3) I understand. Where I live High School Guys that go out with a different girl every weekend (or every time they go out) are called “Players”, implying that they’re not good guys, and only after one thing; which, in the case of LDS Guys that are trying to follow the rules and be good guys, is not the case. As Latter-day Saints we should be used to people talking about us in ways that aren’t true. I know that doesn’t make High School Life easier, but we’ll be much happier if we stop allowing the opinions of others to dictate our happiness. Let’s be candid: anyone, LDS or not, who takes the time out of their life to put down another person is really acting out of jealousy. The Best Thing we can do in those situations, I think, is to talk to the rumor spreaders One-on-one; tell them why we date the way we do, testify that it’s Good and Fun, and invite them to join you on your next group date.

#4) I love movies, and I think they can be a fine date if they’re followed by Conversation Time afterwards. Going to a movie together can give us Something-in-common to talk about, which can be a great catalyst towards finding out the thoughts, feelings and opinions of the person we’re with. You make a very good point about movies defeating the purpose of getting to know each other, so I say after the film go get an ice cream and have a chat.

You’ve asked for two lists, both of which have been somewhat addressed in previous letters, but let’s see if I come up with the same stuff as before. Here you go!

Bro Jo’s LIST OF FUN INEXPENSIVE TEEN DATES

• Anything Outdoors
o Hiking
o Strolling
o Skating (Ice and Roller)
o Biking
o Frisbee
o Croquet (I like this if you add the X-game factor by changing the location from your house to somewhere exotic, like the Beach or Mountains)
o Photography Scavenger Hunt
o Play a Game like Tag, Basketball, Kickball or whatever (great for groups of 4+ couples – just don’t flirt with someone else’s date – that’s pretty low)

• Food
o Picnic (maybe you include shopping for the picnic items)
o Cooking together at someone’s home*
o BBQ (again, perhaps at a random location, like

• Service
o Any well-organized Service Activity can be up-lifting and rewarding

• Affordable Events
o Sports (instead of Professionals, go watch Little League or Middle School)
o Concerts and Plays in the Park
o Festivals

• Take a Class, like a Dance Class or something offered by the local rec. center

* On these Dates you should combine them with something that takes you Out of the Home, or it won’t feel much like a Date, it will feel too much like Hanging Out – NOT ADVISED!

Bro Jo’s LIST OF STUFF TO TALK ABOUT WHILE ON A TEEN DATE

• School. Classes, Teachers, Triumphs and Tragedies.

• Family - The One You’ve Got Now and the One You’d Like Later

• Church – Talks, Conferences, Activities

• Friends - Not individuals as much as “what makes a good friend” and “what do you like to do with your friends

• Music - what do they like, dislike.

• Any other personal interests – sports, movies, books,

The Key to keeping the Conversation Going is to Ask Questions about the Other Person, and Listen to what you’re asked and answer thoughtfully. Be careful not to Gossip; it’s tempting, and right or wrong we feel better about ourselves when we talk about others, but it really is unattractive.

This list is really very similar to Bro Jo’s “LIST OF STUFF YOUNG GUYS CAN ASK GIRLS WHILE DANCING”

I wouldn’t worry about not having too many dates in the first couple months after you turn 16; it can take a while, especially if the boys in your area need some “How to Date” Training.

Hang in there and have fun!

- Bro Jo