OK, If "Men and Women Can't Be Friends", what about Gay Guys?

Dear Bro Jo,

I've been interested in writing to you for awhile, but haven't been able to formula the right question, or figure enough out enough of what I want to decide what to ask and how to ask it. But I've finally come to the point when I know at least one thing (There are certainly others) that I would like you ask you. It's not a personal question, but it has personal meaning for me.

"Guys want women. All guys. (Even the "gay" ones, but that's a topic for a different day.)"

Since you mentioned this in your November 23rd post, I'm sure you knew the question would be coming, and I'm here to ask it. Would you mind explaining your stance on "gay" men, please?

When I first read your defenses of your stance that guys and girls cannot be friends, I was unconvinced. Since then, you've convinced me, under the terms "Guys and girls cannot maintain a close, intimate friendship with anyone other their spouse. If such a friendship does exist between an unmarried man and woman one (or both) of them must be harboring romantic feelings toward the other." If such a friendship exists between a man and a woman and one or both of them are married to separate parties, awkwardness ensues and relationships are very weak. (I think the TV show Glee shows an excellent example of this.) At least, this is how I've interpreted the "Guys and Girls can't be friends" thing, please let me know if I am off in anyway.

While contemplating this rule, I wondered what would apply to gay guys, but I brushed the thought away because it was too complicated to think about.

The topic is close to me, personally, as the conflicted best/close female friend to a gay guy. (Verbose story to Follow... prepare yourself)

I've known a (non-member) boy since I was young, because he was in classes with some of my friends and in Boy Scouts (a non-church affiliated pack) with my brothers. In middle school, he was often picked upon as being "nerdy" and "conceited", being the only 7th grader in our advanced 8th grade math class, but I had a soft spot for him. The boy was practically a genius, but awkward. So we maintained a cordial friendship. I didn't see him much until my junior year in high school, his sophomore year when we sat next to each other in math. During the school year we became friends, and my friends mentioned that he flirted with me a lot. I wasn't sure about it, but I sort of liked him as well. Well the end of the year comes around, and he writes a secret message in my yearbook. I can't figure it out and I finally end up asking him (via email) if he's in love with me because he's signed his yearbook message with "Love". Next thing I know, I have two beautifully written confessions from him. He's in love with me and wishes that in an "alternate universe" we could get married and live happily ever after with lots of babies. but we can't because, surprise... He's gay.

Naturally, as a teenage girl, this turn of events left me on an emotional roller coaster. Eventually things calmed down, and he and I became even closer friends. Throughout my senior year, we were practically inseparable. We had a few fights, mainly over the issues of homosexuality and religion. I personally, don't think homosexuality is a disease, I don't think it's a choice, I don't think it's a natural state of mankind. I'm not sure of the exact nature, if it's a subconscious choice or a gene mutation, but I know that those who want to can overcome it. I maintained that while I couldn't support him in his homosexuality, I could support him as a friend and a person. I could hate that he was gay, but not hate him. He at times had issues with me not being able to support ALL of him, or the fact that I might be "blindly following my religion without thinking", or my support of Prop. 8 (California's proposal to include that marriage must be between a man and woman in our Constitution). Other times he pulled away because he felt he was maturing and coming into his sexuality more, and realized he should use guys as his emotional center, as opposed to a girl. Other times, the homosexuality thing has been too much for me to handle, and I've pulled away from him. Right now, I'm away at college and we're in a good place. He has realized that I really changed his life and encouraged him to have a social life. In a true "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" fashion, he has recognized how important I am to, which I appreciate. He's told me he misses me because I was someone he could talk to on a real intellectual and emotional level and I always understood him. I appreciate this, and I miss him too. Although I am worried about him not being able to have an enjoyable life and social interaction. In his defense, all but a handful of his friends left for college this fall, while he's still in high school. The fights did have a positive outcome in helping me understand that I wasn't losing my soul mate/true love/perfect guy for me through him being gay, because even if he was interested in women, we're not even close to being on the same page morally, politically, spiritually, and a million other ways.

So this might have turned into a personal question, but my point here is that I'd like to know your explanation of homosexuality, and how it fits into the "guys and girls friendship rules".

Thank you so much, I always appreciate reading your advice, and I hope my question isn't too much to handle!

-Reluctant Fairy Princess


Dear Princess,

(Reluctant or not, as a daughter of Heavenly Father, that's what you are!)

Let me start by thanking you for a thorough, thoughtful, and well written letter. I love all of my Readers, and am Grateful for every letter, but it's nice to get one that I don't have to correct with my Editor's Pen.

(Although I must admit having me quoted back to me is a bit . . . new.)

Let me start by directing you and my other Readers to the two previous letters I've responded to on this subject. I think your letter addresses a new and unique aspect of this issue, but it might be a good primer for those unfamiliar with my take on this issue.

The first was from a Young Man who thought he might be gay.  Read it HERE.

The second deals more graphically with a young man who was conditioning himself to enjoy homosexual activity.  Read it HERE.

Not to be redundant, but the reality is that Being Effeminate, Liking "Traditional" Girlie Stuff, or even Recognizing the Attractiveness of Someone Who's the Same Gender You Are does not make a guy a Homosexual (nor the converse for a girl).

The word "homosexual" means to have sex with someone of the same gender you are.  Gay Sex, like Straight Sex, is a choice we make (unless of course we're raped, which a Violent Act, not a Sexual one). "Homosexual" isn't what you are, it's what you do.

Which is a truth that was explained to my by one of my "gay" friends. He pointed out that all of the attempts to explain "gayness" (genetics, bad father, whatever) is nothing more than straight people trying to deal with a lifestyle choice that we don't understand. 'How dare you insult me by implying that I don't have the agency to choose what I do with my own body" he said when, back in my uneducated days I presented him with a scientists (unconfirmed) belief that Homosexuality is Genetic.

Which brings us to your question, I think, which is "Can Gay Guys and Girls Be Friends without Romantic Entanglements?"

On the surface it makes sense, doesn't it?

After all, if Crazy Ol' Bro Jo IS right, and the reason Friendship between a Man and a Woman is ultimately doomed to end, either because another relationship renders it in appropriate, or because of jealousy, or because it becomes something more (as I have so often submitted is what each person really wants) is the Sexual Tension / Potential, then such a relationship should be possible if the Sexual Component is eliminated, in this example, because of a Homosexual preference on behalf of one or both of the friends.

Except for one thing: the underlying reality that Men chose their "Women Friends" because they find them, on some level (admitted or not), attractive. (Women don't necessarily do this, which is why this concept is so difficult for them to understand. In that same vein a man would not have a "dating" relationship with a woman he didn't find attractive; he must find Something about her; her eyes, her soft skin, the way she smells, anything, to be something he is attracted to. Whereas a woman can fall in love with a man before she finds something physically attractive about him, a man must find the physical first. This should not give you sisters concern! Men and Women are different, and THAT, my friends, is a GOOD thing!)

Back on track: "But what about GAY GUYS?" you ask.

Doesn't matter.

The truth is that your friend likes his lifestyle. You said it yourself: if he wasn't gay he thinks the two of you would be together. So why not pick you (or another girl) over the lifestyle? What does "being gay" give him that a regular relationship can't?

Well . . . have you read any Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? ". . . when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" (Sherlock Holmes inThe Sign of the Four, ch. 6).

At the risk of being too blunt here, it's not the intangibles (conversation, feelings, thoughts) and it's not the tangibles (I'm talking about PDA and, well . . . you know), so what's left?

I'll give you a minute.

Take your time.

Figured it out yet?

It's the lack of moral responsibility and accountability.

If you chose a lifestyle separated from God then you convince yourself that there are no eternal consequences for your actions. If one of Heavenly Father's commandments is true, such as "don't be gay" (regardless of what you've read or been told, kids, it's in there . . . often) then ALL of His commandments must be true. Likewise, if one of his commandments doesn't apply to me because The World agrees that what I chose to do is OK, then . . .

Hey, none of us is perfect, especially yours truly; you won't catch me throwing any stones. I like just about everybody (except the overtly evil) and what people do in the privacy of their own lives, so long as it doesn't endanger anyone else, that's none of my business. I have friends who are gay, clients who are gay . . . I still like them as people. There's no one in my life, save Christ, who is perfect. They except me with my flaws (for which I'm grateful) and I accept them. No one likes everything I do or say (or write), and likewise back at them.

So, again, back on topic, can a girl be close friends with a Gay Guy?

Only to the extent that he doesn't "change his mind" and decide that the Lifestyle isn't worth what he's giving up by not being romantic with her. Which can happen (although I think it's rare enough that no girl should wait around hoping). And, gay or not, he's still a guy. No boyfriend or husband is going to say "it's OK that you to hang out; heck, take him with you and let him watch you try on swim wear, I don't care because he's gay!"

You see, Princess, whether he wants to BE a girl or likes kissing girls, All guys like women, and all men know that.

A girl who's friends, close friends, with a gay guy, secretly wishes he wasn't, and the gay guy wonders about the possibility too. And because of that, the friendship is ultimately doomed.

Let me open another can of worms: I think that if pornography, self gratification and sex outside of marriage were magically removed from the earth, there wouldn't be any Gay Men.  (Ponder THAT, readers!)

Thanks for the thoughtful and challenging question!

- Bro Jo

PS.  All of us need to remember that Everyone has value, even those who are doing things with their lives that we don't agree with.  Everyone is a Child or God, right?  Our job is not to judge, but to invite all to come unto Christ; look for the the beam in our own eyes rather than the mote in someone else's.